Portland traffic (Oakland: environment, relocate, maintenance)

[Lillietta]

I know. It's difficult. The beauty of Portland is the fact that they don't have these large roads. Sigh. What to do?

[PSP2PDX]

One idea that I don't know if the City leaders have explored would be to double deck the existing freeways. It has successfully been done in Seattle, San Francisco, as well as in Japan, all earthquake prone areas. This allows for major expansion of lanes thus helping the traffic situation without paving over more real estate. Areas such as southbound I-5 where the 405 meets is a nightmare where everything comes down to 2 lanes. 2 lanes in a major metro area on a major freeway in the 21st century is ludicrous to say the least with no one talking about doing anything about it. The double deck idea through this area could help immensly. Portland is only going to continue to grow and sitting back and doing nothing will only make the situation unbearable.

[NickMan7]

Originally Posted by Lillietta

I was there last summer; I come from the Twin Cities in Minnesota. Same population for both places. Portland is far worse because of bridge gridlock. Seattle must have the same problem. Bridges create traffic problems. But, compared to DC, maybe not. Friday nights in Portland, watch out!

Amen! DC traffic is hell!

[cn1221]

Portland will have to do something about it soon as more people continue to move here. Portland wants to invest more money in light rail and mass transit but it shouldnt ignore the roads.

[Tesaje]

Originally Posted by PSP2PDX

One idea that I don't know if the City leaders have explored would be to double deck the existing freeways. It has successfully been done in Seattle, San Francisco, as well as in Japan, all earthquake prone areas. This allows for major expansion of lanes thus helping the traffic situation without paving over more real estate. Areas such as southbound I-5 where the 405 meets is a nightmare where everything comes down to 2 lanes. 2 lanes in a major metro area on a major freeway in the 21st century is ludicrous to say the least with no one talking about doing anything about it. The double deck idea through this area could help immensly. Portland is only going to continue to grow and sitting back and doing nothing will only make the situation unbearable.

Double decking freeways is an efficient use of space, but an earthquake dropped the top tier in Oakland a few years ago. Not pretty. And then there's the bridge in Minneapolis that dropped into the river last year.

I've seen backups in PDX when I've visited, but compared to LA, SFO, or DC, the traffic is a piece of cake. The infrastructure in this country needs updating and repair everywhere. The old trolley concept got people around cities really well before they were dismantled when the oil barons held sway. They still are a good way to get around SFO easily. More and more population means we need to look at a bunch of different ways to move people where they need to go. Individual cars will have to be the second choice if we are to deal with the problems well.

[aalverson]

Originally Posted by Tesaje

The old trolley concept got people around cities really well before they were dismantled when the oil barons held sway. They still are a good way to get around SFO easily. More and more population means we need to look at a bunch of different ways to move people where they need to go. Individual cars will have to be the second choice if we are to deal with the problems well.

Hallelujah to that!!! Anyone who has ever been to European countries such as Switzerland or Italy understands how effectively public transportation can work. I realize that we are so far gone from that concept it would not be easily integrated, but it is very frustrating to see that the answer seems to be to build more freeways. Maybe I'm just an idealist but I don't see that as the answer.

[seven of nine]

Originally Posted by PSP2PDX

One idea that I don't know if the City leaders have explored would be to double deck the existing freeways. It has successfully been done in Seattle, San Francisco, as well as in Japan, all earthquake prone areas. This allows for major expansion of lanes thus helping the traffic situation without paving over more real estate. Areas such as southbound I-5 where the 405 meets is a nightmare where everything comes down to 2 lanes. 2 lanes in a major metro area on a major freeway in the 21st century is ludicrous to say the least with no one talking about doing anything about it. The double deck idea through this area could help immensly. Portland is only going to continue to grow and sitting back and doing nothing will only make the situation unbearable.

I think a few years back mayor vera katz was talking about something simular to this for the 405, maybe someone remembers the in and outs.

[cdelena]

Whoa.. trolleys and streetcars are a fine way to move people short distances in a densely populated area. Most US cities have evolved around the use of private vehicles that require roadways... unless we raze the cities and rebuild them we cannot go back to transportation system that work in a different environment.

[karnovaran]

Originally Posted by cdelena

Most US cities have evolved around the use of private vehicles that require roadways...

..and that's extremely unfortunate. One of the main reasons I'm looking to relocate to Portland is that you can live comfortably without a vehicle.

[suncat]

Portland knew the area was poised for growth, but area officials refused to widen freeways, because to do so would encourage growth. Well guess what? It grew anyway, and now we're stuck with traffic problems. For the worst example, look no further than the 217.

Back in the late 80s or early 90s, I remember a freeway widening project on the I-5 in North Portland. When it was done, I couldn't believe that they failed to widen a small part of it around Delta Park. The result was a bottle neck that has only gotten worse. Why would they do something like this? It didn't make any sense to me.

Recently, the Sunset Highway underwent some widening. Yay. That has helped, but I don't understand why they didn't just add another couple of lanes while they were at it. There is room, and it had to have been cheaper than adding them 10 years from now, when they'll no doubt need them again.

Note that none of this would have required new freeways... just widening existing ones. Guess it was too daring of an idea for Oregon to even ponder.