Portland traffic

[oldtintype]

Originally Posted by Venusian_Artist

On the other hand, if the MAX were scaled down, people would still get to work, the grocery store, Johnny's soccer game, just fine.
Now, I don't have anything against MAX. I have something against people ignoring basic by-way infrastructure because they want to force the majority out of their cars, to support the minority's own selfish ideologies. Those, like me, who are opposed to this brand of social elitist fascism, are not necessarily in love with our cars. Sure, it's nice to have public transportation, but at the expense of other modes? Not so much.

Actually, I wouldn't "get everywhere just fine," because I am carless. I really don't care if you drive a car or not, but just like how you don't want to hear people complain about car drivers, I hate it when I hear car drivers bitching about public transport because it doesn't work for THEM. I would actually not be able to get to work and all the other places I do without public transport. I personally find your ideology of "if I don't need to use it, it shouldn't exist or I shouldn't have to pay for it" just as obnoxious as you do about the people you think are trying to "force" you out of your car. A good public transportation system is vital to a healthy community. Freeways are necessary but mass transit is in many ways even more so. Not everyone can afford to drive a car either. And if those people who can't afford cars added to the population who can't afford to drive but already do, you'll be paying more for car insurance as well for all the people who drive without insurance, cause accidents because they can't safely maintain their cars, etc.

I also love how people who don't choose to use public transport because they'll die over the extra 20 minutes it will take them, will spend 10 minutes looking for a space or better yet, have some kind of weird guilt complex where they assume everyone is out to get them because they do drive a car.

[Venusian_Artist]

Originally Posted by jack7y

Mass transit such as trains fit more people in the same amount of space, that's why it's called mass transit. A rail line is more expensive than a two lane road, but not necessarily more expensive than bigger highways at all. It's only more expensive initially too, in the long term roads cost more. The important thing to remember is that a rail line replaces many roads, not just one. Rail is a big savings compared to the highways, automobiles and fuels needed to get around a metro without public transit.

This isn't a hypothetical lesson in economics. It's been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum.

In other countries as well. Notice the reference to other American cities not finding it cost effective.

This article discusses how federal funding was the initial impetus for a host of light rail systems nationwide, and that when local governments are forced to carry the financial load, the numbers look bad, and they often pass.

And last, but not least, we have an article that discusses directly the Portland light rail system.

Look, I don't have a problem with Portland's light rail; some people use it and need it. Some of you, though, clearly need a lesson in reading comprehension. My issue is with the perspective that not funding freeway expansion and maintenance is a good way to force people out of their cars. And that said forcing, will be better for all of us. You can attempt to deliberately misinterpret what I'm saying in order to have grounds for dissent, but it won't change what I'm saying.

[hymalaia]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

Actually, I wouldn't "get everywhere just fine," because I am carless. I really don't care if you drive a car or not, but just like how you don't want to hear people complain about car drivers, I hate it when I hear car drivers bitching about public transport because it doesn't work for THEM. I would actually not be able to get to work and all the other places I do without public transport. I personally find your ideology of "if I don't need to use it, it shouldn't exist or I shouldn't have to pay for it" just as obnoxious as you do about the people you think are trying to "force" you out of your car. A good public transportation system is vital to a healthy community. Freeways are necessary but mass transit is in many ways even more so. Not everyone can afford to drive a car either. And if those people who can't afford cars added to the population who can't afford to drive but already do, you'll be paying more for car insurance as well for all the people who drive without insurance, cause accidents because they can't safely maintain their cars, etc.

Don't forget old people, people under 16, those with disabilities, and those who lost their license for whatever reason. They deserve a chance at autonomy which they can only get via public transit.

I tend to agree with most of what you are saying. Mass transit isn't perfect but most people who complain about are very short sighted. They don't consider the above mentioned groups because it doesn't effect their life. They think government exists to serve THEM and not US. I'd have an easier time listening to their arguments if this entitlement attitude wasn't so prevalent amongst them.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by Venusian_Artist

And last, but not least, we have an article that discusses directly the Portland light rail system.

You're citing some crackpot's blog as though it's authoritative? Especially from someone who titles their blog "Antiplanner?" Heh. At least we don't have to wonder where he's coming from.

[Venusian_Artist]

Originally Posted by EnricoV

You're citing some crackpot's blog as though it's authoritative? Especially from someone who titles their blog "Antiplanner?" Heh. At least we don't have to wonder where he's coming from.

I don't care who he is, his statistics are accurate. He's not the source of my info, just confirmation of what I said. But wax ad hominem if it pleases you...