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So lately my partner has been very concerned with the large rocks he's seeing around town on the freeways- mostly because he has a car that is very expensive to repair. I'm not sure this is necessarily rocks but maybe large pieces of asphalt that have broken loose? Is this type of thing typical anywhere else, and where they use salt? I wonder how many cars are actually damaged by the large pieces of asphalt/rock and if using salt would be an answer to preserving the roads. Obviously a large piece of rock will only cause damage on high speed roads like freeways.
They spread paint and windshield chipping gravel all over the highways when it snows. Used to make me furious. Back when I lived there I'd stay off the freeways for a week or more after it snowed unless I wanted to risk getting my car trashed by flying gravel. Totally insane.
They spread paint and windshield chipping gravel all over the highways when it snows. Used to make me furious. Back when I lived there I'd stay off the freeways for a week or more after it snowed unless I wanted to risk getting my car trashed by flying gravel. Totally insane.
Its very interesting for sure...theres not a shortage of what I would consider "nice" cars in Portland, certainly not LA, but does anyone want their car battered by rocks? There must be a better way, but I assume people here just 'accept' it for what it is. Strangely, being from here, I don't remember this years past- only noticing now this winter after moving back after a while away.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,705 posts, read 58,042,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTomJones
You have no idea what you're talking about. Why don't you actually go try driving on one of the freeways around Portland? 205 or 84 mostly..... Now go drive in Minnesota ....
Been (commercial) driving and even living occasionally in MN (and every state west of IL for over 50 yrs..).
I drive 205 and I-84 usually 3 - 5x / day As well and mtn passes every week (and mtn driving everyday going back and forth to town). Had ICE 3x in the last week, so if I had no studs, there would be no way to get home, except to use the far more damaging devices (cleated chains) Which of course I have used in MN many times.
Studs do not break up roads.
OR has FAR different road bed construction and soil types and preparation than MN.
Yes, I am a licensed Civil and Mech engineer, and own my own construction company, so definitely have no idea what I am talking about.
I am not an environmental engineer, but salt on roads has little merit in PNW We_tside.
That is a PRACTICAL decision.
You're not getting the point. Chains are not meant to be put on and left on 6 months a year like most people do with studs. You put them on when you're in a bad spot, and take them off when you're out of it.
I'll just repeat myself here since it's only as useful as saying anything else apparently. Studs should be illegal, and so should using chains on dry roads be.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,705 posts, read 58,042,598 times
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Studs are GREAT and necessary for some conditions (PNW ice storms )
"most people" use their studs only when necessary, and don't put a lot of miles on them (Mine last well over the 7 yr date code life of a tire). I have plenty of extra cars for dry days (You can buy 'winter' cars 2x / week at Portland towing companies for under $200, most of mine were $35 bought when steel prices are low)
If you have a shop at home (as do many people with studs) It takes less time to swap tires than put on chains ~ <10 min for 4 tires and wheels last I checked.
My kids drove daily to be ski instructors during 4 yrs of HS and their studs are still in great shape (12 yrs later, used only when needed).
I had Ice this morning, so I am still wearing studs, tho Feb 15 is usually my 'off date', (even as a Gorge dweller). If it is questionable, I throw studded tires in the car with me to put on for the climb home.
The farm truck has cleated chains if it ever gets really bad.
I have been in current 'wicked' location for 28 yrs. Nearly all my neighbors have to wear studs, all the county and PUD trucks have to wear chains to plow and travel our roads. Our road is in great shape!, Bike racers from Portland love it! I have never encountered a crack or pothole on our 7 mile road in the "Vortex-of-the-Columbia-Gorge" (Makes Troutdale seem like Tahiti)
You're not getting the point. Chains are not meant to be put on and left on 6 months a year like most people do with studs. You put them on when you're in a bad spot, and take them off when you're out of it.
I'll just repeat myself here since it's only as useful as saying anything else apparently. Studs should be illegal, and so should using chains on dry roads be.
This makes no sense. And it is at total odds with the reality of Oregon's topography: wildly varying elevation and microclimates. If you're just outside downtown metro near sea level, there may be no snow or ice on the surface streets. But travel just a couple miles into the hills when you are at 500, 600, 700 feet, this gradient alone means you could very quickly be on slippery snow or dangerously slick ice.
And precipitation phase changes happen fast. You can have both conditions on the same stretch of road -- it could be bare pavement for a mile, yet a quarter-mile down the road there are significant patches of ice. And these lightning-fast changes are precisely why there are so many car accidents when the temps drop to 31 degrees with precipitation. People have traction, then hit patches where there is none, and you are flying off the road, injuring or killing others in the process.
Finally, thinking you can take tire chains on and off like sneakers is beyond ridiculous. First, for many stretches of road, there are no safe areas for one to stop their car and get under it, putting on chains. Think you're going to shoulder-install chains on the 5 or 84? Idiots who are speeding in bad conditions, or looking at their phones, will hit you and kill you. Anticipate the road conditions, you say? Well guess what: if you're putting on chains in a safe area, anticipating dangerous conditions ahead, that means you are doing precisely what you claim should be illegal, i.e. chaining in areas where the roads are dry and safe.
Finally, just think how ridiculous this position is. Imagine driving from the Hills to Burnside, passing through the lower metro. Leaving the Hills, put chains on. At sea level, pull over, get under the car, take chains off, and how you do this without getting frozen, soaked and dirty (filthy road and tires) is beyond me. Now I have to drive to East Burnside. Let me pull over the car again, put the damn chains back on that I just put on and took off. Yeah, this entire scenario is beyond ridiculous. Imagine thousands of drivers having to pull over, kids in the car, while they take chains on and off multiple times per day, wasting hours and risking life and limb. And there is a fair percentage of the population who can't do it, either because they can't physically, or don't know how. It's never, ever happening. It is, in a word, stupid.
Studded tires are safe and appropriate, especially for those who live at elevation. They give traction in snow and ice. They do not destroy roads. This is why Washington and Oregon permit studded tires from November 1 through March 31. Safe, sane, sensible. And it's not going to change. End of discussion.
Are you even reading your own post? You make the point for using chains (changing conditions) then say using chains is stupid? Hilarious that you think it's so hard to take off and put on tire chains, just proves you have absolutely 0 experience with them. Takes about 2 minutes per tire for a normal person, less for a fast person, max 5 minutes for a slow person.
And again, when you try to claim studs help in snow, just proves you're entirely clueless as to what you're talking about. At best studs do nothing in snow, more often they give slightly worse traction than plain winter tires.
What is your issue exactly? Old crotchety senior citizen that thinks young people owe them something?
As someone from the Midwest, I totally agree. I drove through most of the storms we've had this year and it was awful trying to get through town. In areas they've used gravel to help. So if you're not sliding on the ice, it's the snow and if you aren't sliding on either you're skidding from the gravel. Like wtf is that? My windshield got busted from rocks on freeway. I do have to say, the snow is much more wet than the snow I'm use to, so it is more slick, plus the hills and terrible drivers here. Speaking of that, what's with the drivers here? They even slow way down and seem to struggle driving in rain... Annnd on that note, with this state getting soo much rain what's with the shoddy drainage systems? Roads aren't even hardly designed to channel water.
I'm from Alabama, but I did live in Michigan for four years. Does Oregon really get that much snow? I know in Alabama, if it snows AT ALL, the entire state seems to just stop. After living in Michigan though, this completely seems laughable to me. Granted, Alabama is not accustomed to snow.
I must say though, I see the point of avoiding salt. It does destroy roads and cars and the effects on the ecosystem seem to really indicate a need for an alternative.
I'm considering a move to Oregon / Washington area in the future. The climate, the people, and the coast are all a draw for me. The suffocating intolerance in the South has been too much for a long time. The only thing that kept me here was a previous relationship, and family. Quite frankly, the reasons to leave are outweighing the reasons to stay at this point.
I'm from Alabama, but I did live in Michigan for four years. Does Oregon really get that much snow? I know in Alabama, if it snows AT ALL, the entire state seems to just stop. After living in Michigan though, this completely seems laughable to me. Granted, Alabama is not accustomed to snow.
I must say though, I see the point of avoiding salt. It does destroy roads and cars and the effects on the ecosystem seem to really indicate a need for an alternative.
I'm considering a move to Oregon / Washington area in the future. The climate, the people, and the coast are all a draw for me. The suffocating intolerance in the South has been too much for a long time. The only thing that kept me here was a previous relationship, and family. Quite frankly, the reasons to leave are outweighing the reasons to stay at this point.
This incredibly long thread began as a result of a one inch snowfall in December that happened to be a perfect storm for Portland. It was well predicted, but happened to start around 2pm, which was too late to close schools and everyone was already at work. When the snow started sticking to the roads, everyone hit the road at once and Portland's normal heavy traffic became gridlock when multiple major routes became impassible (particularly US 26 west of downtown). Stories abounded of people stuck in their cars for 8 hours or more. All from one inch of snow. They had spread Magnesium Chloride on the roads, but it proved ineffective. Conditions were much better on the Washington side of the metro area, where they use rock salt.
Just as this thread was about to lose steam, Portland experienced its biggest snowstorm in many years. The woefully under prepared transportation department was exposed as the roads in Portland stayed snow covered for over a week, including the freeways. As people began to drive around on the snow covered roads, they became icy, rutted, bumpy hellscapes, with pedestrians and other obstacles strewn about. There was basically no plowing done, even on the major routes (82nd Ave really sticks out in my mind).
After the snow finally melted, the roads basically fell apart, developing some of the deepest potholes I've ever seen. I have busted two tires on potholes since this happened a month and a half ago (luckily, Les Schwab covered the damage, otherwise, I would have been out $320). They have made little headway in filling the potholes.
This was an extraordinary year for winter weather in the Willamette Valley. Usually, we get either nothing at all or a very small coating that melts almost immediately. Every 5 or so years we get a major snowstorm. However, the rest of Oregon gets tons of snow all the time. Studded or winter tires are basically mandatory if you live in the Gorge, the mountains, or Eastern Oregon. In those areas, they don't use salt, and they've been spreading pea sized gravel for as long as I can remember.
BTW, you say the climate is a draw for you. All I can say is that the climate here is popular with almost no one outside of the glorious summer months. People that live here long term have become used to and tolerant of rain and overcast skies. We just had our rainiest February ever (probably one reason why the pothole haven't been filled). I go to tanning salons once a week to maintain my mental health.
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Been (commercial) driving and even living occasionally in MN (and every state west of IL for over 50 yrs..). 
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