From Raleigh NC to Portland (Beaverton, Bend: fit in, transplants, real estate)

[ArnieShake]

Hello there,

My husband and I are thinking of a move to Portland from Raleigh and after doing some research and reading other posts about the good, the bad the ugly and the really ugly I have some questions. I would love to hear your thoughts, whatever they are. Apologies in advance for the long post.

We are 40 and have a 2 yo and a baby on the way. We definitely would NOT move unless at least one of us have a job secured. I’m from a big city in Europe (Madrid) and he was born and raised in Durham, NC. I’d say we are very progressive but not necessarily super granola/vegan/I’ll eat my placenta kind of people (nothing wrong with that). I’m a civil engineer (MS) with 2 yrs of experience doing land development (stormwater, grading, erosion control, etc) and he does video production for a major university (educational and promotional videos). We love the outdoors, music, going to music shows (garage, punk, soul, rock), theater and hanging out with friends. I don’t believe in play dates unless the adults get to have a good time too beer in hand :-D

I came here for grad school and never planned on staying in a place like Raleigh. I keep hearing how great of a place to live Raleigh is, and I will admit it does have great things, but I don’t feel like it is home and I just can’t seem to fit in. To me, this are the Pros and the Cons:

PROS:

- Apparently, a great job market, although I’m in a FB group for transplant moms and they keep saying how hard it is to find a job here. Lots of highly educated people competing for the same jobs and massive influx of people. It sounds like Portland has the same issue.
- Nice mild weather for nice months (although I do miss having a real winter here) and then 4 moths of unbearable heat and humidity.
- Great schools. Or so they say. A lot of the transplant moms from up north say they find the education subpar. But I guess not everyone is going to be happy no matter what.
- Reasonable cost of living although like every growing city in America, housing cost are skyrocketing real fast.

CONS

-Waaaaaaaay too suburban for my taste. Granted, we also now live in Holly Springs, a suburb of Raleigh but even downtown Raleigh feels minimal and deserted during the week. I HATE having to drive EVERYWHERE.
-Too religion centric. People here build their communities around their church. Just REALLY not my kind of scene.
-The mommy scene makes me wanna shoot myself in the face. I downloaded an app to make mom friends (like Tinder but for moms) and I swear 70% of them listed going to Target as one of the activities they like to do. Like, seriously? You have 3 lines to define yourself and you say ‘going on Target runs’. Also, I understand parenthood changes everything, but it seems like they all define themselves by being a mom, like there is nothing else after that. Idk….
-Everybody says ‘great place to raise families’, and I do agree with that but, then what? What do your kids do when they are teenagers? I would’ve been bored out of my mind in a place like this.
-There is nothing but strip malls, big box stores and food chains. Somebody defined Raleigh as a suburban wet dream with Targets every 3 miles. It sure feels like that. But maybe that is America today, no matter where you are. There are some hidden gems but few and far between.
-This may have more to do with our age and life stage but, I am a VERY social person who had a robust social network back home and I am really struggling to make friends here. It feels like everyone I meet has nothing to do with me and are extremally vanilla.

Now, to Portland and my actual questions:

PROS (?):

-Public transit. It may not be perfect, but it exists. Now, as a ‘young’ family with a good but limited budget (around 400k) I am not sure what our location options would be and how much access to public transit we would realistically get. Looking for something with at least 2,000 sqft and a yard and not in need of a complete remodel. Will we end up living in the suburbs with the same car dependency and big box riddled strip malls?. Or would it be possible to live somewhere within the city that is still somewhat walkable and has decent public transportation?
-Great weather for 4 (?) months and then cloudy and rainy the rest of the time.
-Better social scene (including the mommy scene)??. I guess that’s very subjective but hoping that maybe people would be a tad more interesting and not just focused on Target, church and motherhood and nothing else.
-Outdoors. Great, beautiful, unmatched outdoors.

CONS (?):

-Weather. Unless the rain doesn’t bother you.
-Lack of jobs and career options?. If anybody knows anything about the Civil Engineering field I’d love to hear about it. As to my video production husband, I can only imagine that everyone and their mother are into filming over there so that might be the trickiest piece of the puzzle. Any thoughts?
-Schools. So far I’ve only seen some people saying they are not good. Thoughts or comments?


Lastly, are there public Spanish bilingual or immersion schools?. Just curious.

Thanks a lot in advance for sticking it out through all my blabbing :-D and for any guidance or insights.

[texasdiver]

I think most of your problems are due to the fact that you are living in the suburan south. My wife and I lived in Texas for decade in the same sort of suburbia so I know exactly what you are describing.

Honestly I think you can find most of what you are looking for in any larger northern or western city: Denver, Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Chicago, etc. etc. Any of the larger and more urban ones will meet most of your lifestlye and education requirements. And you will find things wrong with any new place you choose.

Your biggest challenge will, of course, be transferring your careers to a new city. My wife and I moved back to the Portland area from Texas (I was born and raised here). But we both had jobs lined up before making the move (her in medicine, me in education). And it was also a 2-year process for us from beginning to end with lots of trips out for interviews and that sort of thing.

[Familyman6]

I'll chime in here as we just did the opposite of what you are looking to do. We lived in Tigard for 10 years and recently move to the South CLT area. I will be the first to admit I hated a few of things about the NW when I was there but I kinda miss it now. I will start by references your home budget. $400K isn't going to get you much in the Portland market. you are going to have to get back into the burbs if you want a decent home but lots are postage stamps just about everywhere. When we moved we sold a 1/2 lot and there was a bidding war because it was so rare. the house was 3400 sq feet( daylight basement) and it needed a lot of work, but it sold for $610k( 11k over asking) in 6 days.

PDX Pros:
beautiful and lush. mountains, rivers , outdoor activities, etc...
Food scene is amazing. I miss the sushi
the most perfect weather from june-oct.
no humidity
no man eating bugs/critters . I am sick and tired of being bitten by mosquitoes in the carolinas.
Trailblazers
Public transportation is solid
3 hour drive to Bend which is one of my favorite places to visit.
short drive to the coast but it isnt that great and short drive to Mt Hood

PDX cons( for us):
Hated( and still do) the in your face liberal agenda. The folks that continue to get voted into office in Oregon is mind boggling( ie: Kate Brown).
constant grey overcast drizzle for most of the year
cost of living( homes per sq ft and no yards)
traffic
public schools are among the worst in the nation although we found a fantastic charter school while we lived there.
high taxes and they love to add new ones. Oregon just killed small business owners with their new tax law

[Scorpion3510]

I'm not sure you'll find everything on your list in PDX. You'll have to sacrifice some combination of prices, schools, and public transport.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are looking for what they call "inner ring suburbs" or "street car suburbs" of a city. They don't really exist in the south. Mostly in the Northeast and Midwest.


If you can deal with cold (you did say you miss a proper winter) I would suggest Cleveland, Chicago, or Minneapolis. All 3 have those walkable suburbs with a lot of cultural offering that go beyond "motherhood, target, church". Chicago area would have the best public transport, schools, and is within your budget. It also might have jobs for you and your husband. Don't forget that they do have HIGH property taxes. You won't get mountains (obviously) in any of the 3 but still water, hills, and trees. All 3 fit your budget and you would be able to get a decent yard in all 3.


If you have your heart set on PDX, I would at least take a trip out there to see if feels right. Portland, while cheaper than most west coast cities, is still expensive. Jobs can be hard to come by as compared to someplace like Seattle.


Hope that helps and good luck!

[VelouriaPDX]

You would likely find most of what you are looking for in the city of Portland, but the suburbs here are not so different than what you're describing. The problem is that $400,000 will not buy you the kind of home you want in the neighborhoods it sounds like you're looking for. Spend an hour on a real estate site and you'll see what I mean. The schools here really aren't great relative to other states either. There is just not the investment in schools here that there needs to be.

If I were you I'd consider the Main Line suburbs in Philadelphia. They kind of check all your boxes.

[JonathanLB]

Others covered many things I mostly agree with, but yes I specifically was going to address $400,000. You won’t get anything for that except in the suburbs and then it won’t be much. Our house sold for $550,000, 2,800 square feet in Beaverton in a nice neighborhood but not far off a busy street, the lot is tiny with zero real backyard yet it’s bigger than all of our neighbors (corner lot), so it’s about 3,400 square foot lot. Fits a hot tub. That’s literally it. So for $400,000 IN the city or near it?!? No chance at 2,000 square feet or bigger. Not even close. My friend just bought a house in St. John’s, fairly close to what I consider a sketchy area where I wouldn’t want to live, and it’s maybe 1,200 to 1,300 square feet for $400,000. You’re not walking anywhere from that place let me tell you.

Most areas that are walkable AND safe here will run you more than $800,000 for that size, but you can find probably small places with no yard like townhouses for $350,000 to $500,000 maybe? I’m guessing. Nothing I’d want to live in personally. Cost of living here is high.

Most people here seem to love it, I guess, and I’m happy for them. I have no clue why. As mentioned before the liberal politics are a deal-breaker. There’s democrat and there’s extreme radical liberals. They’re the reason we have a shortage of 128 police officers! Anti-police sentiment, protests every weekend, very poor weather (I don’t know where anyone is moving from to think rain and clouds and sun-80 degree weather almost constantly is ok, but wow poor people!), and crushing income taxes combine to make for a hard to recommend place. I lived in the Pearl downtown for a few years, lifelong Oregonian, I wasn’t ever impressed by the food here. I’m less impressed by the service, though, which is almost universally awful at nicer restaurants. You get the best service at well run chain restaurants (Cheesecake Factory) not the snooty downtown tiny portions places that charge $50 for a meal but leave you starving and unimpressed.

I admit to pleading ignorance to the supposed “natural beauty,” because it’s a lot like saying my girlfriend is a wonderful sweet saint 20% of the time. Well, umm... ok..? But the other 80%? That’s Portland. Yeah when it’s sunny and warm and nice outside, only guaranteed about July 5 - September 5, it’s incredibly pretty!! But the other 8-10 months of the year (May and June can’t be counted on) it’s just awful. Nothing is pretty when it’s cloudy and rainy and dreary. In fact it’s downright ugly all winter long. Snow at least is very pretty; we don’t get snow, we get rain. And more rain. And yet more still. If you love rain, boy are you going to love Portland! It’ll be like paradise for you I hate rain and if I never saw it again even once I’d be a happy man.

Adjust your expectations accordingly. Travel Oregon has done an incredible job for the city, god bless them, but I wish I was smoking whatever they are to consider things like the Rose Gardens, Saturday Market, some beer, some food, and some trees to be amazing tourist attractions. *Yawn* Two days here you can see everything there is to see and go back home, check Portland off the list, and go visit somewhere with something actually happening.

[Pavlov's Dog]

I don't think Oregon "in your face liberals "will scare off a Madrileña as they are pretty tame compared to the political environment in Spain where terrorism was a recent fact. I lived briefly in Madrid in 1990 and a neighbor judge got killed by a package bomb courtesy of ETA.

I think Oregon could be a nice fit for a Spaniard in terms of lifestyle. The climate in Portland is most similar to Ponferrada. Think rainy winters and long, glorious summers. Portland has some great things going for it compared to NC. You'll have sidewalks to walk on, sidewalk cafes, exceptional wine and food everywhere.

Like everyone else says your budget might be a bit tight. You might want to consider a condo. Given that you're a Spaniard you probably didn't grown up in a single family home and might be more amenable to that built form than most Portlanders with young children would. That would allow you to live in a decent urban neighborhood and enjoy the amenities. You might have to give up the idea of having your own yard but you should be able to find something with a joint yard and/or a park nearby.

[olderandwiser456]

Originally Posted by ArnieShake

PROS:

- Apparently, a great job market, although I’m in a FB group for transplant moms and they keep saying how hard it is to find a job here. Lots of highly educated people competing for the same jobs and massive influx of people. It sounds like Portland has the same issue.
- Nice mild weather for nice months (although I do miss having a real winter here) and then 4 moths of unbearable heat and humidity.
- Great schools. Or so they say. A lot of the transplant moms from up north say they find the education subpar. But I guess not everyone is going to be happy no matter what.
- Reasonable cost of living although like every growing city in America, housing cost are skyrocketing real fast.

CONS

-Waaaaaaaay too suburban for my taste. Granted, we also now live in Holly Springs, a suburb of Raleigh but even downtown Raleigh feels minimal and deserted during the week. I HATE having to drive EVERYWHERE.
-Too religion centric. People here build their communities around their church. Just REALLY not my kind of scene.
-The mommy scene makes me wanna shoot myself in the face. I downloaded an app to make mom friends (like Tinder but for moms) and I swear 70% of them listed going to Target as one of the activities they like to do. Like, seriously? You have 3 lines to define yourself and you say ‘going on Target runs’. Also, I understand parenthood changes everything, but it seems like they all define themselves by being a mom, like there is nothing else after that. Idk….
-Everybody says ‘great place to raise families’, and I do agree with that but, then what? What do your kids do when they are teenagers? I would’ve been bored out of my mind in a place like this.
-There is nothing but strip malls, big box stores and food chains. Somebody defined Raleigh as a suburban wet dream with Targets every 3 miles. It sure feels like that. But maybe that is America today, no matter where you are. There are some hidden gems but few and far between.
-This may have more to do with our age and life stage but, I am a VERY social person who had a robust social network back home and I am really struggling to make friends here. It feels like everyone I meet has nothing to do with me and are extremally vanilla.

I really appreciated your assessment of the Raleigh area. I have been researching the triangle for possible retirement, along with several other locations in the US, including PDX, and reading a good, thorough analysis of what you liked and disliked about the Raleigh area is very helpful.

Like you, I'm more "urban than suburban" and also a progressive, so the south is looking less and less like a good fit for me, even in a little "blue" pocket like the triangle. I also like sidewalks and public transit over strip malls, chain restaurants and driving everywhere. And as a retiree, I'm certainly not interested in sitting on a beach somewhere in old age, bored out of my mind, whatever is left of it at that point. I am looking more toward a location that is urban and has transit. Every location has pros and cons, and in the end, it's a matter of what trade-offs one is willing to make. It's a long process.

Once again, I really appreciated your excellent analysis of Raleigh.

[Lapaki]

My wife and I have lived in Portland since 1998. The OP caught my eye because we know three couples who moved from Portland to the Raleigh area and two other couples who moved there from other cities. All of them rave about it. I agree with what the other posters have said about Portland but figured I'd add my two cents' worth.

In 1998, most of the negatives stated by others didn't apply. Many viewed Portland as Seattle's poorer cousin: smaller, uncrowded, somewhat provincial, lacking in ethnic diversity, quirky ("Keep Portland weird," as the saying goes), and somewhat rough around the edges. Houses were inexpensive, traffic wasn't bad, and the vibe was laid back. The city was clean (visitors always remarked about the lack of litter), and the few homeless people I encountered near my downtown job usually were friendly. It had enough city amenities to suit my needs (diverse restaurants, good music scene, arts, culture, one of the best bookstores in the world) without the drawbacks of a really big city like Atlanta, where I moved from. And, of course, the natural beauty of the Pacific Northwest is stunning. For over 15 years, I couldn't think of a place I'd rather live. As more and more people moved here, things began to change, but it was gradual. They reached a tipping point about three years ago, though. There are too many people for the infrastructure to support, we have an urban growth boundary that limits where new housing can be built, homelessness has become a major problem, and the cost of living has increased.

To answer your specific questions:

PROS (?):

-Public transit. It may not be perfect, but it exists.

Our public transit system is good. I used to take the MAX, our light-rail system, into the city when I worked near one of the stations. It was clean, and I usually could get a seat. I enjoyed reading during my commute. My current company pays for garage parking, so I drive in. The few times I've recently taken the MAX during rush hour, it's been packed like the proverbial sardine can, with standing room only. I have coworkers who don't own cars, so they take the bus. It gets people around.

Now, as a ‘young’ family with a good but limited budget (around 400k) I am not sure what our location options would be and how much access to public transit we would realistically get. Looking for something with at least 2,000 sqft and a yard and not in need of a complete remodel. Will we end up living in the suburbs with the same car dependency and big box riddled strip malls?. Or would it be possible to live somewhere within the city that is still somewhat walkable and has decent public transportation?

As others have said, you won't find what you want in your price range. My wife and I live in the suburbs, which are like the suburbs where you live now. I bought the house in 1999 when I was single. It's 1,300 sq ft, 3 BD/2 BR, on a 5,000 sq ft lot. It was built in 1985 and didn't require any renovation. I paid $145K, and it's worth about $370K now. We're near a bus line, but the neighborhood isn't walkable; the nearest small strip shopping center is about a mile away. It's quiet and safe, but it's suburbia.

-Great weather for 4 (?) months and then cloudy and rainy the rest of the time.

When I moved here, people told me that the first two winters would be rough -- and then I'd either adjust or move away. That proved to be accurate. Most of the time, I don't mind the long, gloomy gray season. It starts to get to me in the spring, when we have our first few sunny days, and then it goes back to cloud cover and drizzle for a while. But our climate is mild -- we have very few extremely hot or extremely cold days. Summers are gorgeous and almost rain-free. It usually tops 100 a couple times per year, but it's a dry heat. We get a big snow storm every two or three winters, and the city grinds to a halt. Despite what some people claim, it doesn't rain constantly and heavily for weeks at a time. Much of the rain is light and sporadic, and there are sun breaks. If you require plenty of sunshine year round, though, you won't be happy in the PNW. The South has longer and nicer spring and fall seasons, but summers are brutal. During a rainy PNW day or a muggy Southern day, I end up staying indoors, but the South has more outdoor days.

-Better social scene (including the mommy scene)??. I guess that’s very subjective but hoping that maybe people would be a tad more interesting and not just focused on Target, church and motherhood and nothing else.

Portland and Seattle both have reputations for being cities where people are stand-offish, and it's hard to make new friends. We've found that to be the case. My wife is more social than I am. She retired recently and has been having lunch dates with other retired friends, but she has yet to meet that kindred spirit with whom she can share everything. However, I've read the same thing on pretty much every other City-Data forum I've checked out, so I believe it's more of a life-stage thing. People seem to make most of their life-long friends when they're in high school or college, or in their early 20s when they're single and childless. Then they become busy with their careers, their partners, and their kids.

So it depends on what you're looking for in a social scene. There are plenty of special-interest groups and volunteer organizations, and I'm sure you can meet other intelligent people with interests similar to yours. If you're looking to make deep friendships, that's going to be tougher, but that likely will be the case anywhere. I don't know about the "mommy scene." Many of my coworkers are thirty-something mothers. I can't say that I've ever heard them talk about social groups aimed at mothers; they just talk about what they did over the weekend with their families and friends. I will say this, though: my wife and I recently got back from a two-week vacation in the South, and strangers, overall, are much friendlier there than they are in the PNW. Whether that goes beyond the surface, I don't know.

-Outdoors. Great, beautiful, unmatched outdoors.

Yes, indeed! That's the main reason I decided to move here in the first place. We have beaches, mountains, forests, and high desert within a few hours' drive. The East, in my opinion, has many pretty areas, but the West has stunning, jaw-dropping beauty and diversity. That said, how much you take advantage of it is up to you. We go to the coast once or twice a year. It's beautiful, but it's usually cold and windy, and the ocean is too cold for swimming. We drive through the Columbia Gorge once or twice a year. We go to Mt. Hood even less often. On a warm, sunny day, most of the easily accessible nature spots are packed with people, and traffic is bad, so we usually prefer to go to a nearby park or sit out on our back deck. People who are seriously into hiking and camping take more advantage of the outdoors than we do.

CONS (?):

-Weather. Unless the rain doesn’t bother you.

Already covered.

-Lack of jobs and career options?. If anybody knows anything about the Civil Engineering field I’d love to hear about it. As to my video production husband, I can only imagine that everyone and their mother are into filming over there so that might be the trickiest piece of the puzzle. Any thoughts?

I don't know anything about the civil engineering job market. My wife and I used to work in high tech. There are plenty of high-paying jobs in electrical and software engineering, but much of it depends on what skills you have. Age discrimination becomes a problem as you get into your late 40s. I don't know whether civil engineering is similar.

Getting a job in film or video, from what I hear, is extremely difficult, because so many people want to do it. I used to do public-access video production as a hobby, and there weren't many paying jobs to be had. I know of a few people in film and video (friends of friends), and most are freelancers. As with most creative fields, freelancing involves a combination of talent, luck, persistence, and being willing to deal with the ups and downs in income. At least a couple of TV series and some movies are shot here, which provides some opportunities, but we haven't developed the industry that, say, Atlanta has.

-Schools. So far I’ve only seen some people saying they are not good. Thoughts or comments?

Portland schools have a bad reputation, but there are good schools in suburbia. Washington County has some good ones, thanks to the presence of Nike, Intel, and other well-paying employers.

Lastly, are there public Spanish bilingual or immersion schools?. Just curious.

I don't know, but I would guess so, as we have a large Hispanic population in the area.

In summary, based on what you posted, it doesn't sound like Portland would be a good fit for you. Almost all of the people I know who have lived here for more than a decade agree that the quality of life has declined significantly in the past few years, and they'd move away if it weren't for their jobs or family ties. The people I know who love it here usually are recent transplants who moved here from bigger cities that share Portland's problems, so the problems are nothing new to them, and they love the good things about Portland. In particular, people who move here from the Bay Area, Los Angeles, or San Diego can't believe how inexpensive houses are compared to where they came from -- but those who move from most of the South or the Midwest can't believe how expensive houses are here compared to where they came from.

As for my wife and myself, we have a low mortgage because of when I bought our house, so we're insulated from the high housing costs, but we don't plan to stay here for more than a couple years. She recently retired, and I have a job that will allow me to telecommute. We've been researching cities that are similar to what Portland was like 20 years ago. Raleigh has been on our list, thanks to the recommendations of people we know who moved there, but it's no longer the bargain in terms of housing prices that it was two years ago. We're looking at cities that have a lot to offer culturally but that haven't yet been "discovered" the way Portland, Raleigh, Austin, and Nashville have. Nothing on the West Coast is cheap compared to the South and Midwest, unless you get into rural areas. My wife's older son moved to Louisville, Kentucky three years ago, and we were surprised by how much we like that city and nearby Lexington. We could sell our house here and get something similar there for half the price. We saw quite a bit of Virginia on our recent vacation, and we loved the Blue Ridge Mountains. (Our dream would be to move to my wife's native Hawaii, but we can't afford it.)

No place is perfect, so you have to figure out what your sweet spot is. By all means, come visit Portland and see what you think. I recommend that you visit during October or March, when the weather is semi-yucky, but you won't be caught in a snowstorm. If you come during the summer, you're going to love the area, but you'll get an unrealistic picture of what the weather is like for most of the year.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck!

[olderandwiser456]

Originally Posted by Lapaki

Portland and Seattle both have reputations for being cities where people are stand-offish, and it's hard to make new friends. We've found that to be the case. My wife is more social than I am. She retired recently and has been having lunch dates with other retired friends, but she has yet to meet that kindred spirit with whom she can share everything. However, I've read the same thing on pretty much every other City-Data forum I've checked out, so I believe it's more of a life-stage thing. People seem to make most of their life-long friends when they're in high school or college, or in their early 20s when they're single and childless. Then they become busy with their careers, their partners, and their kids.

So it depends on what you're looking for in a social scene. There are plenty of special-interest groups and volunteer organizations, and I'm sure you can meet other intelligent people with interests similar to yours. If you're looking to make deep friendships, that's going to be tougher, but that likely will be the case anywhere. I don't know about the "mommy scene." Many of my coworkers are thirty-something mothers. I can't say that I've ever heard them talk about social groups aimed at mothers; they just talk about what they did over the weekend with their families and friends. I will say this, though: my wife and I recently got back from a two-week vacation in the South, and strangers, overall, are much friendlier there than they are in the PNW. Whether that goes beyond the surface, I don't know.

This is a great topic, not so much about the PNW, but for older adults in general who move to a new area and would like to meet people and develop friendships, and the difficulties you mentioned. Later in life you lose that context where it's easy to meet people such as college, work places, etc. Maybe it's a good topic for the Retirement forum on C-D.

Thanks for taking the time to post such a thorough response.

I definitely agree that in the South, strangers overall are more friendly than in the north, though one exception is Maine. I lived there 2 years and found people who I encountered in day-to-day living (in stores, coffee shops, taking senior classes, etc) were very friendly and helpful and had a great work ethic. I've never had such good customer service in my life. Going beyond the day-to-day stuff or casual acquaintances would probably be different, however. I did pick up on a little bit of passive-aggressive stuff, such as comments like: "You're not from here, are you?" I laughed it off, and don't really care, but finding and building real friendships later in life is difficult anywhere.

You mentioned that you've read the same kind of thing about the difficulty of building friendships later in life on other C-D forums and I agree. There also seems to be some undercurrent of resentment to newcomers in almost every location. The only place I haven't experienced that is in Florida, where most everyone is a transplant. I've not lived there year round, but on longer visits, phone calls doing research, etc, there is more of a sense of "Welcome to Florida" rather than "Why are you here jacking up our real estate values....." which is something newcomers in the triangle area of NC have mentioned on this forum.

I have been researching NC and one poster even sent me a direct message saying she and her husband moved to Raleigh, and hated it. They went back to Ohio, largely due to the overt resentment and crime, which they didn't realize how bad it was until they lived there.

But everyone finds their niche eventually and makes the necessary trade-offs.