Portland??? (Dallas: motel, travel, construction)

[DougD]

Originally Posted by cjski21

Hello,
I am currently a police officer in Las Vegas Nevada. I am looking at taking a position with the Multnomah Sheriff Department. I miss the rain and the Pacific Northwest (lived in Washington for a while). My wife misses the Ocean but we can't afford California. The Desert is great but it is just too dry and hot. Mountain biking in 120 degree temps is brutal. Vegas has become Eastern LA and the cost of living is reflecting this. I am very unfamiliar with Portland and have a few questions.

Some honest opinions of Portland would be great (good and bad). I do not even have a clue where to start looking for living arrangements. I heard you pay taxes on everything except sales up there, true? What is the reputation of the department according to it's citizens?

Thanks for the help.

I am police officer in the Dallas area of Texas and I just spent a week in Portland. Here are some random thoughts that I have about the place:

(I apologize but I cannot get the links to work correctly below. You will have to cut-and-paste them in order to see the follow up references.)

The locals told me that it is overcast and gray NINE months out of the year. They said the summers are very nice though. It rained or misted the whole time I was there and the locals said that was perfectly normal. The local police told me that there are more suicides there than the national average and that Seasonal Affective Disorder is a problem for many people who take medication to overcome it. See: Seasonal affective disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The city government and the overall population is WAY more liberal than Austin, Texas, which is known for being a bastion of weirdness and liberalism. There are panhandlers, beggars, and pierced-tattooed-dreadlocked street punks everywhere in the downtown area. One of the current candidates for mayor stated just last week that, "The quintessential tourist experience in downtown Portland is to be approached by panhandlers." Downtown Portland is compact and crowded. Traffic there is terrible during business hours. I know because I drove in it.

A Clackamas County Sheriff’s Deputy told me that the movie, “My Own Private Idaho” was not only set in Portland but filmed there as well. I remember seeing the movie in the 90’s and being weirded out by the gay, street hustler youth in it. See: My Own Private Idaho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Turns out that’s apparently a very accurate description of at least a small part of the downtown scene because many of the people in that movie were not actors, they were the real deal from Portland. While I was stuck in traffic, I watched as approx 10-12 kids (18-21 years old) squeezed into a doorway off the sidewalk and smoked dope right there in front of the several hundred people who were waiting for the train which was apparently late. As I looked at them, one of them started staring back at me aggressively and began walking towards my car but the traffic light changed and I went on before there was any problem. This all occurred within view of the downtown pioneer court house square. See: Pioneer Courthouse Square - Portland, Oregon

Housing is expensive. I drove around several neighborhoods and looked at houses for sale. As best I can tell, a house that would go for $150K in Dallas would probably about $250K in Portland. One house I saw that would be about $300K in Dallas was going for $480K in Portland. According to the locals, Portland actually has some of the best housing prices on the West Coast. It’s true that we are spoiled in here in Dallas with our low housing costs so this may not be a valid criticism.

Mass transit is apparently efficient and great to use when it’s on time. The CATO Institute (a libertarian, right-leaning think tank) recently produced a very interesting document on Portland’s mass transit entitled, “Debunking Portland: The City that Doesn't Work” and it was written by a guy who lived most of his life in Portland. You can see it here: Debunking Portland: The City That Doesn't Work The complete document is very long and can be accessed at the bottom of the page. If someone was going to relocate to Portland, it’s probably worth their time to read it because it talks about property values, local government actions in spite of citizen’s desires, and how politics really works in Portland.

There are more breweries in Portland than in Munich, Germany. They have very good beer there. People cringe if you go up to a bar and order a Bud light or a Coors Light. Don’t do it. The local beer is much better than anything you can get in a can or a bottle. For some reason, they are big on India Pale Ale there and not so big on Bavarian or German stuff. Every brewery there makes their own “eye-pee-ay” (that’s short for I.P.A which is the India pale ale) and they tend to be somewhat bitter and very “hoppy” but that’s probably because the farms around that part of Oregon grow a huge portion of the world’s hops. See: Hops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are bicyclists everywhere. Portland is the most “bicycle friendly” city in North America. Of course that comes with a cost to the local infrastructure too. It also made me nervous as h#ll while I was driving because they have their own lane right next to yours and I saw lots of them darting in and out of moving traffic. I guess that’s something you can get used to. See: League honors Portland as top bicycle-friendly community - Portland Business Journal:

The trees in people’s front yards are literally 100 feet tall. It’s a RAIN FOREST…all those big beautiful trees require a lot of water to get that big. According to locals, every now and then, a giant tree falls over in a windstorms and crushes people’s houses but not necessarily the one whose yard they are in. This is not a major concern but it is strange to see trees that large in a regular city-sized front yard.

You can be at the ocean in one hour but it’s extremely cold water for most of the year. There are some cool surf shops near the ocean and the town of Seaside was a trendy tourist spot with plenty to do and see. You can be skiing in the mountains in one hour too.

Nike dominates the corporate world around Portland.

The two main candidates for mayor have been having some heated public debates and from an outsider's view it sometimes appears that each man is trying to prove how he is further to the left and more liberal than his opponent. Per the past mayor and city council, Portland PD is not allowed not participate in the Oregon Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) despite the fact that all other law-enforcement agencies in that region do and also despite the fact that Portland actually has real sea port activity. There was an item in the newspaper about all of this and the popular view seemed to be that if one of the current candidates for mayor was to indicate that he would be in favor of Portland PD joining the JTTF, he could be expected to automatically lose the election. On a vaguely related note: For whatever reason strange reason, there are a significant number of people in Portland who openly and honestly believe that the Palestinian terrorists are the true victims of Israel and state that the U.S. should be helping them. According to one article I read, some of these Portland residents are actually working in organizations to help Palestinian groups which have been identified as terrorist fronts. One local liberal politican who recently came out with a strong "Pro-Israel" stance is now taking a beating in the news for it. I am NOT making this up.

The local newspaper is extremely liberal and there was an unbelievably slanted editorial printed about a basic felony traffic stop conducted by Portland PD in which two bystanders ended up being arrested because they stepped off the sidewalk and tried to interfere with the stop. The paper made the police officers out to be the bad guys and said that they should have been charged with false arrest and for “carrying scary looking guns.” Again, I am NOT making this up. There were two letters to the editor in the paper the next day where pro-police people slammed the paper for their historically anti-police views before gathering all of the facts.

All of the Oregon people I met there told me that Portland and a few of the surrounding cities were known to be very liberal while the rest of the state is fairly conservative. Thus in their state legislature, it’s always the west coast left wing political establishment fighting against the rural or suburban conservative political establishment. Typical arguments in local papers are Loggers vs. Environmentalists, Gays vs. Religious Right, Fishermen vs. Environmentalists, Developers vs. Special Interest Groups, etc… There are plenty of farms, ranches, small towns, and gun-owners all over the state. Portland does not represent the majority of Oregon at all.

For more on Portland’s liberal reputation see:
'Little Beirut' nickname has stuck
Turn Left: Liberal Friendly Places - Portland

I know all of my writing above sounds very, very cynical. I should probably say that there were some very nice people there and it’s not all bad. Not at all. These are just things that I would personally have to consider if I ever decided to go live there. For some people, these are minor concerns and not worth worrying about. For others, they might be deal breakers.

[oldtintype]

Have you spent much time other places than TX? Have you visited Seattle, San Francisco or similar places?

[DougD]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

Have you spent much time other places than TX? Have you visited Seattle, San Francisco or similar places?

Outside of the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, I have spent significant time in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Orlando, Denver, Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Memphis, Little Rock, Savannah, and Charleston.

[EnricoV]

While it may have seemed so to you, Portland is not in a Rain Forest. That's a techincal designation, and it doesn't apply. It does not literally "rain for nine months." What Portland essentially has, is 9 months in which it will rain, and 3 months in which it won't. I'd be interested to know when you were here, as I can't recall any time recently that it has rained for any long period of time. Even at the "misting" level. Do you know what the annual rainfall is in Dallas? It's 36.3". Do you know what it is in Portland? 36.5".

You must be a police officer in a smaller suburban area of Dallas, if you're "weirded out by the gay, street hustler youth." They exist in every city. True there are street kids in downtown Portland. And panhandlers. And a lot of wannabes. I've never had any trouble with any of them. But you seem to be implying that they were just about to do something like jump you. How do you know they were smoking pot? You claim that the train for which people were waiting was late. How could you know any of that? You say you were in a car.

Nike is in Beaverton. I'm not sure that it dominates anything more than the shoe market (if that). Columbia Sportswear, to me, seems to have much more of a Portland business presence. And I think Intel comes up more often in the news. Seems like I only hear about Nike when they have some sports figure visiting.

But many of your points are valid. Portland is terribly liberal, and none more so than the city council. They are infamous for bowing down to special interest groups, like bicyclists, and protestors. And there are protests. But do realize that whatever the special interest group, it is an infentesimal segment of the population. If Portland as a whole is guilty of anything, it's of allowing everyone to have their own ideas, and express them.

[DougD]

Originally Posted by EnricoV

It does not literally "rain for nine months." What Portland essentially has, is 9 months in which it will rain, and 3 months in which it won't.

The locals told me that it is overcast and gray nine months out of the year.

I'd be interested to know when you were here, as I can't recall any time recently that it has rained for any long period of time.

I was there last week. I got there Sunday and when I left Friday, the sun came out. It was either raining or misting approx 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time, it was gray and cloudy.

You must be a police officer in a smaller suburban area of Dallas, if you're "weirded out by the gay, street hustler youth." They exist in every city.

No, I work for a rather large Dept. I am very well aware of the "gay, street hustler youth" and I have dealt with them the same as any other officer in any other city. I was talking about the movie, "My own Private Idaho" and my reaction to it in the early 1990's....and how scenes from that film relate to the current downtown scene in 2008 Portland. With regards to the movie itself and what weirded me out...it's one thing to deal with gay people on the street, it's quite another to see still scenes in a movie involving two young men and an old German guy who appear to be playing a demented version of three-way "Twister."

How do you know they were smoking pot?

Because I could see it and smell it. I'm a cop and I went to college. I know what it looks and smells like.

You claim that the train for which people were waiting was late. How could you know any of that? You say you were in a car.

Because I was stuck in traffic immediately next to the train tracks and the train station. My windows were down because the misting had slowed. There were hundreds of people standing there. There were some kind of volunteers or officials in bright-colored vests who were walking along in front of the waiting people yelling loudly, "Sorry folks. There's been some major delays. But get ready because when they start coming, they're gonna come one right after the other! If you don't make the first one, be ready to get on the next one!" Combine that with the irritated looks on people's faces and it tells any observer that the trains must have been late.

If Portland as a whole is guilty of anything, it's of allowing everyone to have their own ideas, and express them.

How does that jibe with the tax dollars that are spent by the elected officials for special interest pursuits that the majority of the citizenry may not want? If it is the "infentesimal segment of the population" who are perceived to get their way more often and who definitely color the character and image of the city as a whole, what does this say about the will of the electorate as it is expressed in Portland?

[Nell Plotts]

Nike is in Beaverton and 'dominates' Portland only insofar as the fact that able bodied Portlanders tend to enjoy hiking, running, and cycling and many have direct or in-direct access to their employee store. Portlanders like to attend basketball games, and in fact in many public parks there are frequent pick-up games. So, culturally they are similar.

Before Nike there was Pendleton and Jantzen for outdoor wear manufacturers in Portland. Columbia Sportswear may actually be older than Nike as they started equipping fly fishermen. Columbia Sportswear moved just beyond the city limits as a result of a hissing match between the Mayor and the company. Adidas moved from Tigard to Portland.

The Max light rail runs frequently. Unless there is something unexpected it runs on time. I have never heard of complaints about service level (maybe except for the plea for more, which is why their extensions have met with approval).

On the other hand, isn't it great that Portland isn't for everyone???

[oldtintype]

Originally Posted by DougD

Outside of the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, I have spent significant time in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Orlando, Denver, Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Memphis, Little Rock, Savannah, and Charleston.

I think if you spend time in San Francisco, Seattle and similar you won't find Portland to be so "weird." It's really not.

And the 9 months of the year thing is a myth. This year has been weird--79 degrees a few weeks ago and cold rain and hail recently. That you were here one week with bad weather does not equal 9 solid months.

I think you were just very much out of your element that you found so many things about Portland so strange and focused on stereotypes. Dallas is of course night and day compared to many cities in this country--Texas is not exactly a liberal state--I think the issues you had with Portland you would probably have with many areas of this country, particularly on the west and east coast.

[DougD]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

And the 9 months of the year thing is a myth.

Hey, I'm just reporting what was told to me by no less than 5 different Portland residents. I haven't spent a year in Portland so I don't know.

I think you were just very much out of your element that you found so many things about Portland so strange and focused on stereotypes. Dallas is of course night and day compared to many cities in this country--Texas is not exactly a liberal state--I think the issues you had with Portland you would probably have with many areas of this country, particularly on the west and east coast.

I respectfully disagree with you here.

First, in addition to the other cities I mentioned earlier, I neglected to mention that I once spent a week in Philadelphia and Atlantic City. Thus, I do have experience in multiple cities on both the east and west coasts. If one was to examine the culture and politics of the many other U.S. cities I have spent time in, as well as my professional experience in dealing with the extreme diversity possessed by humanity, it's not fair to say that I was so far out of my element that I was only able to focus on the stereotypes of Portland. I may not have traveled to San Francisco or Seattle but those two cities are known across the U.S. for being both unique and liberal. Neither of them are representative of the average American city; whatever that may be. Being that Portland is between both of them geographically and politically, it's only natural to expect some crossover and/or similarity among all three.

Secondly, the opinions and observations I have reported here are not and should not be considered to be those of some sheltered, provincial hick from Texas who just doesn't know any better. That line of thinking only serves as an "easy out" for those who disagree with my assertions and it's intellectually disingenuous. I found Portland to be neither "weird" nor "strange" and I never stated as much. While visiting Portland last week, I had the chance to hang out with native Oregonians from Bend, Salem, Eugene, The Dalles, and Prineville. I also shared cups (perhaps too many) with Washington natives from Vancouver, Yakima, and Kennewick. Strangely enough, most of these people expressed opinions and made observations about Portland that were almost identical to those I have written on this forum. Some of them were actually very passionate while expressing their strong feelings about how Portland is an out-of-touch liberal mecca with a local government that more closely resembles a pro-PETA, Earth First! version of the Politburo than an elected representative body in Anytown, U.S.A. (Their words, not mine.) I guess my point is: This isn't some "Texan hating Portland" thing. Many of the people from Oregon and Washington feel that Portland is out of touch with the rest of Oregon; which is exactly how many Texans feel about Austin.

You're absolutely right about Dallas being night-and-day when compared with other cities in the U.S. I'm not defending Dallas at all. It has plenty of problems; most of them related to a failing local government and growing friction between Hispanic and Black political groups in the city. (There is a great deal of racial tension in Dallas proper.) No place is perfect and in reading most of the criticisms of Dallas on this same website, there are a lot of stereotypical observations expressed which are unfortunately accurate and fair; even if they are stereotypes. Sometimes it takes an outside observer to get a truly unbiased view of a place.

Anyway...thanks for reading my diatribes. It's been fun. Everyone in Portland was nice to me and I would love to visit again in the Summer but it's not for me year round. Take care.

Doug

[Nell Plotts]

Again, isn't it great that Portland isn't for everyone!!

[GB1]

Originally Posted by DougD

Secondly, the opinions and observations I have reported here are not and should not be considered to be those of some sheltered, provincial hick from Texas who just doesn't know any better. That line of thinking only serves as an "easy out" for those who disagree with my assertions and it's intellectually disingenuous. I found Portland to be neither "weird" nor "strange" and I never stated as much.

I think you're right, Doug. Portland isn't weird so much as it's determinedly look-at-us-we're-so-goshdarn-quirky. There's a hell of a lot of time and effort expended on the notion of "keeping Portland weird," but most of it seems to be a very collegiate notion of weirdness.

I still remember having lunch downtown in a diner near one of the many residential facilities for the down-and-out. A man was standing on the sidewalk outside. He was a sweet-faced fellow, sort of hulking, wearing a pair of old overalls, and appeared to be Not Quite There in some way.

He was carrying...a dolly. Not a construction dolly, but a little girl's rag doll. It looked as battered and worn as he was, but he carried it with the utmost solicitiousness and love.

And people were crossing the street when they saw him, averting their eyes as they hurried past, doing their best to pretend this extremely weird (but harmless) fellow wasn't standing there on the sidewalk. I must've watched for 15 minutes as businesspeople and "weirdos" alike avoided this guy like he was Typhoid Mary. A group of skateboard kids actually ducked their heads and hurried past him like they were church ladies and he was the town drunk.

He wasn't the "right kind" of weird.

Long and short of it: "weird" in Portland is an extremely limited concept, and when it comes to the importance of fitting in, Portland to me seemed to have a lot more in common with a small town than a metropolis.

(By the way, you state your opinions and your arguments beautifully -- I don't know how much we would agree on outside this forum and I don't care; we could probably have a good time agreeing or disagreeing over a beer. But that's also not the nature of Portland, where consensus rules even in the most personal social interactions. Cheers.)