The Definition Of Liberal In Portland (Durham: how much, incomes, living)

[scone]

Originally Posted by spiritbear928

In the rest of Oregon I think they shoot libruls fer fun after they choke down some possum meat with their tooth

I can testify to that. I live out in Columbia County, hillbilly central. They are the opposite of the Portland liberal, which is all about the environment and NOT about the labor movement.

The liberals here could "walk the walk" by scraping together enough money to get children off the streets. They would rather give to the Sierra club and step over some 14 year old tweaker, I guess.

And heaven forbid a precious tree should be cut so some logger can feed his family, or maybe move out of a moldy trailer into a decent home. Heaven forbid we should even consider a change in the land use laws, so the rednecks don't have to live in a floodplain, like Vernonia, and lose the moldy trailer, and everything else they've worked for.

In fact, we're all supposed to live in highrises in downtown Portland, with "creative class" jobs, ride bikes to work, and live on lattes. In Portland, and especially Eugene, a liberal is the kind of person who would contribute to pay lawyers to defend an ecoterrorist.

We'll see how long the liberalism holds now that the timber payments are history, and the police have to let officers go.

[GB1]

Originally Posted by spiritbear928

Oregon is as rednecky as Alabama except for Portland, Corvallis and Eugene. I think in those places liberal means tolerant of all. Homeless, gay, white, black, purple, green. Live and let live.

In the rest of Oregon I think they shoot libruls fer fun after they choke down some possum meat with their tooth

The definition of Portland liberality in a nutshell: All those stupid prejudiced one-toothed hillbilly rednecks outside the city limits -- why can't they be tolerant like US?

[Krystle]

My observation from living in Salem for a few months and having lived near NYC for most of my life (take it as you will) is that the people in Oregon seem very sheltered, and that breeds a different kind of liberalism. In NY, you had to put up barriers to live in your own little world, but those barriers always reminded you that it was "dangerous" out there, that there are places like the Bronx and Queens where you might get killed. It's a connection (albeit tenuous) to the real world.

In Oregon, it's much easier for people to talk the talk because they've never seen how really ugly a city can get. For example, it's easier to take a live and let live attitude towards the homeless when you or anyone you know have never been mugged or raped or killed by a homeless person. And it's not just the Portland liberals who are sheltered, but also the less liberal minded who make a fuss about illegal immigrants (or assume that anyone with brown skin is here illegally). In NY, you quickly learned that there are good immigrants, and bad immigrants, just like there are good people, and bad people, and whether or not they were documented was NOT a reliable way to tell the difference. And you recognize that some immigrants, legal or illegal, are respectable people who you wish your kids would learn a thing or two from.

To sum up, I think Oregon is a little bit of a bubble, and it's always easy to make sweeping judgments and idealistic statements (liberal or not) when you don't confront, on a daily basis, the issues that cause people in other parts of the country to think differently.

[deegers]

Originally Posted by Krystle

My observation from living in Salem for a few months and having lived near NYC for most of my life (take it as you will) is that the people in Oregon seem very sheltered, and that breeds a different kind of liberalism. In NY, you had to put up barriers to live in your own little world, but those barriers always reminded you that it was "dangerous" out there, that there are places like the Bronx and Queens where you might get killed. It's a connection (albeit tenuous) to the real world.

In Oregon, it's much easier for people to talk the talk because they've never seen how really ugly a city can get. For example, it's easier to take a live and let live attitude towards the homeless when you or anyone you know have never been mugged or raped or killed by a homeless person. And it's not just the Portland liberals who are sheltered, but also the less liberal minded who make a fuss about illegal immigrants (or assume that anyone with brown skin is here illegally). In NY, you quickly learned that there are good immigrants, and bad immigrants, just like there are good people, and bad people, and whether or not they were documented was NOT a reliable way to tell the difference. And you recognize that some immigrants, legal or illegal, are respectable people who you wish your kids would learn a thing or two from.

To sum up, I think Oregon is a little bit of a bubble, and it's always easy to make sweeping judgments and idealistic statements (liberal or not) when you don't confront, on a daily basis, the issues that cause people in other parts of the country to think differently.

Wonderful well said post, Krystle! Thanks so much. You are right in so many ways. Location, experiences, and exposure really can limit or expand your mind about the things going on around you and inside you of course. It just goes to show no matter what you just can't judge people or judge people's circumstances for that matter.

[Wicked Felina]

While I think you wrote a great post here Krystle, I think most of it will fly over the heads of the "sweeping" judgements folks.

I, too, believe that an insulated world view allows people the luxury to make sweeping, prejudiced generalizations on subjects about which they've had very limited experience, if any. Little sound bites, with a very hollow ring. Gosh, as you more or less said, some of those poor little tweakers or homeless folks would cut you as easily as look at you...

I completely agree with you that Oregon is a bit of a bubble; we don't consistently confront the life-threatening issues that cause other people to think and act differently. That's very well said. I sometimes wish our "sweeping statement" folks, could take a vacation in the south Bronx. Be they think themselves 'liberal' or 'conservative.'

An excellent post, and well thought out. Don't worry, Krystle, I'm keeping my eyes peeled for those crazy legals who could be moving north at any time!!! I'll keep you posted~

[scone]

One thing you can find in Portland (and Eugene) that rarely exists elsewhere: co-operative living and working arrangements based on a European socialist model, something like Denmark, Holland, or Sweden. The work co-ops are often small businesses such as bicycle shops and bakeries. The living groups are usually based in large old houses with each person or couple living in separate rooms, but getting together to do the chores, make dinner, etc. These are called "cohousing" and you can google that for more info. And of course there are co-op groceries, as well.

There's a very strong commitment to simple living and environmental stewardship, etc. Bicycles, recycled clothes, organic bread, that sort of thing. Very much like Berkeley during the seventies, as I recall. (And most of Portland embraces these ideas, to some extent, although not everyone is willing to give up the automobile.) I'd say most of these institutions are on the east side of the river, from Hawthorne to Alberta, more or less. If you are committed to that style of European socialism, you may find east Portland quite to your liking

That said, there is a very small, but truly radical element. There have been some violent incidents, tree spiking and bombing, for example, and that's just wrong. I have personally heard a couple of people suggesting that George Bush should be assassinated for "war crimes." This type of violent stuff should be summarily rejected and loudly denounced, IMO, but it seems to be tacitly "tolerated." Hopefully, some of this element will have the rug pulled out from under their rhetoric, so to speak, after the elections.

[Wicked Felina]

Originally Posted by scone

One thing you can find in Portland (and Eugene) that rarely exists elsewhere: co-operative living and working arrangements based on a European socialist model, something like Denmark, Holland, or Sweden. The work co-ops are often small businesses such as bicycle shops and bakeries. The living groups are usually based in large old houses with each person or couple living in separate rooms, but getting together to do the chores, make dinner, etc. These are called "cohousing" and you can google that for more info. And of course there are co-op groceries, as well.

There's a very strong commitment to simple living and environmental stewardship, etc. Bicycles, recycled clothes, organic bread, that sort of thing. Very much like Berkeley during the seventies, as I recall. (And most of Portland embraces these ideas, to some extent, although not everyone is willing to give up the automobile.) I'd say most of these institutions are on the east side of the river, from Hawthorne to Alberta, more or less. If you are committed to that style of European socialism, you may find east Portland quite to your liking

That said, there is a very small, but truly radical element. There have been some violent incidents, tree spiking and bombing, for example, and that's just wrong. I have personally heard a couple of people suggesting that George Bush should be assassinated for "war crimes." This type of violent stuff should be summarily rejected and loudly denounced, IMO, but it seems to be tacitly "tolerated." Hopefully, some of this element will have the rug pulled out from under their rhetoric, so to speak, after the elections.

Why do you think talking about assassinating a President of the United States is tacitly tolerated? I'm sure you know that that is a federal crime. That'd be my one major concern with your newly expressed views of Portland. If I heard such things, I would report them, and not tacitly "tolerate" it.

Your post is really quite interesting. And I agree with a lot of it. But why wait for a bit of prodding before expressing your true feelings about "east" Portland? Oh my Lord, you did suggest Beaverton once, didn't you? Oh, that's really mean to do that to people....

People who are considering moving here are asking for an honest opinion, and it's only fair that you share that. Without getting too politic, you'd only need to tell them that the Willamette River is our very own Mason-Dixon line!

Did I read your bringing up these concerns and opinions when people ask about neighborhoods to move into? I probably missed that. Why tell them to google for information when they are asking for the opinions of people who actually live here? We shouldn't be afraid to tell newcomers what we really think...it can only help them make their decision. Hard to do, without moving on over to the Politics Section, though.

If you think that most of radical "element" is on the east side of the river, you might, especially given where you live, do a bit more checking around. I know several locations which have chapters of John Birchers and other anti-American fanatics (freeman, anti-constitutionalists, et al) in your area, in south Clackamas County, etc. They're all over. Even west of the River.

If one needs suportive info, there's always our faithful google, or even a library!

What frightens some people is that a black man may very well be our next president, don't you think? Let's hope and pray that he pulls the rug out from under the feet of the element who believe that we no longer need our constitution and search warrants. We can only pray...

[backdrifter]

Originally Posted by scone

One thing you can find in Portland (and Eugene) that rarely exists elsewhere: co-operative living and working arrangements based on a European socialist model, something like Denmark, Holland, or Sweden. The work co-ops are often small businesses such as bicycle shops and bakeries. The living groups are usually based in large old houses with each person or couple living in separate rooms, but getting together to do the chores, make dinner, etc. These are called "cohousing" and you can google that for more info. And of course there are co-op groceries, as well.

Is "co-housing" really not common in other parts of the country??

[scone]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Is "co-housing" really not common in other parts of the country??

Not so common as that. The real estate "mechanism" that's often used is called "tenants in common" and some areas of the country are not too familiar with it. Vermont has some cohousing projects, I believe, and there are some in California, especially Berkeley, and I think one near Davis. If you google "cohousing" you'll probably find a lot more. But compared to the whole real estate market, it's not yet that big. And right now, of course, real estate is pretty troubled, so financing such a project may be a sticking point.

If you're into it, you could post on Craigslist and see if you could get a group going.

Of course, I'm talking about a formal cohousing project, where the members actually own a share of the project. I don't mean the kind of casual group house where people rent a room, like students often do. There's plenty of that arrangement all over America. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Cheeto]

I find the topic of this post to be very interesting. I'm planning to move to Portland this winter, and I actually like the idea of moving to a city with a liberal mindset. But I consider myself more of a blue collar liberal, I have nothing in common with hybrid driving, organic grocery buying hipsters who regard themselves as being so enlightened, but know nothing about the world they claim they're saving. These people aren't unique to Portland, there's even clans of them in my homestate of Michigan. I'd rather live in an area dominated by these types of people than xenophobic war mongering conservatives, the lesser of two evils I suppose, however I don't consider them true liberals. To me liberalism is about accepting different cultures, understanding your fellow man, and striving to achieve equality. Forcing the working class out of neighborhoods through gentrification, or looking down on people who can't afford hybrids, or actually would like to see homeless people getting help instead of handouts, doesn't reflect a liberated mindset.