Minnesota To Portland, but... (Sherwood, Sunnyside: best city, real estate, 2009)

[ottaduluth]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
Background info:
My wife and I are in our mid 20's and live in Duluth, MN. The area in Northern Minnesota is really doing very poorly economically and like most of the young people around here we've decided to leave. We've set April 30th, 2009 as the date. Gives us almost a year to get things ready.

I work in IT with the schools and my wife does voice lessons (yes I'm serious.. she's really that good). We do ok, I make a little under $50k and she does around $35k. For Duluth standards we do pretty well.

The Question:
We've decided that either Seattle/Tacoma or Portland will be where we will end up, but after reading about housing costs and whatnot in Seattle, I think we may be priced out. Further, I know there is a good chance I(we) won't find any meaningful work until after we get out there. Long distance jobs searches are tough...

Our plan is to save $8-9k (in addition to moving expenses and whatnot) for a backup fund and go even without jobs. We don't need much and figure that we could just find some quick temp jobs till some real work got straightened out.

We plan on renting for a while and my second question is how hard will it be to find a rental without work lined up? We don't need a super nice place super class neighborhood - we prefer something with artsy, liberal types, love older houses with some character. A nice duplex or something would suit us nicely. We also have a dog so the neighborhood would have to be fairly dog friendly.

Is this doable or are we crazy? Also, which neighborhoods would suit us? I've heard the Pearl District is an artsy type area.. any others?

Thanks all! We're super excited and terrified at the same time.

[roneb]

Wow, I can't believe I'm reading your post! As a long term Portlander (20+ years) my advice would be to stay in Duluth! Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has actually been considering the reverse of your move, is older (mid 40's), and ready to slow down or simplify life. If I could get my life long Portlander wife on board, I'd move to Duluth in a heartbeat!

If you looking for someplace more suited to younger people with more night life, then yes, Portland will be an improvement. Portland is a GREAT city for public transit, outdoor recreation opportunities, books, music, etc. If you play soccer it's the best city in the U.S. as far as adult leagues and indoor soccer facilities.

And yet...

If you don't do well with lack of sunshine, Portland IS worse than Duluth. It really does get quite dark and gloomy in the winter months. Someone WILL come on this thread and tell you I'm exaggerating, but statistics will back me up. The snow and sunshine in Duluth brighten things up considerably compared to Portland.

Your standard of living on 85K will not be nearly as good here in Portland as it is in Duluth. And you DO NOT want to come here without more savings or jobs lined up. There are jobs here, but the competition for any decent job opening can be EXTREME. To get IT with the schools you'll probably have to look at one of the suburbs, as Portland Public Schools is in a continuous budget crisis. Temp jobs will only net you 10.00/hr and those are temp-to-hire positions. I had first hand experience with this over the past few years as I looked at a possible career change.

Traffic here, while better than Seattle or LA (and maybe even TC'S), will seem like a nightmare compared to Duluth.

If you are outdoor lovers don't discount what Duluth has to offer. It truly is beautiful back there! Portland has the one big mountain (Mt. Hood), but Duluth can match it in almost every other recreational opportunity, and surpass it in some (kayaking). If you love snow (as I do) you'll miss it. Portland rarely gets snow. Though when it does get an inch or two the entire city shuts down. It's both hilarious AND very peaceful at the same time!

Frankly I wish I could have your family income and be in Duluth. You can literally buy nearly twice the house for the money in Duluth, based on what I've seen on real estate sites. I'd love to be able to sell here and invest in a home in Duluth to get more space for my four kids. If your thinking of a family down the road, Portland is a good place for kids, but I think I'd still rather be in Duluth.

If I haven't discouraged you and no one else chimes in, get back to me and I'll give some more specifics on possible neighborhoods.

[lucero32]

Glad to hear your thinking of moving on over, and no you're not crazy. It wouldn't hurt to have more money saved up, but that would always be true. Also, I would check out some of the many school district's websites to see what the job situation is regarding the need for IT specialist. At the high school I teach at, there is a full-time IT guy on staff. It is actually a challenge for the district to hold on to IT people being that they can often times make more in the private sector.

As for neighborhoods, there are many which would sound like they would be good fits. Portland is great in that there is a large supply of older pre-WW II homes in all styles. Actually, the residential architecture of Portland was one of the things that drew me here from L.A. a couple of years ago. I'm not sure what you're budget is, but check out Ladds Addition, Sunnyside (aka Hawthorne), Mt. Tabor, Kerns (lots of apartments where 28th meets Burnside and close to all), and Sellwood. As for the Pearl, while there are many galleries, I wouldn't call it "artsy".

Best of luck to you in this endeavor.

[ottaduluth]

Thanks for the replies! Very helpful. Tell you what roneb, we'll switch spots!

I don't mean to rag on Duluth. It is a fine city with lots of outdoors stuff to do and for the most part, people are very friendly around here. And summers up here are great - usually in the 80's and Lake Superior is great.. I love running along side it. But.. for a young couple starting out in life, it doesn't have what we want, and it doesn't look like the area is going to be on the upturn anytime soon.

To get IT with the schools you'll probably have to look at one of the suburbs, as Portland Public Schools is in a continuous budget crisis.

That is actually part of the reason we would like to leave. Like Portland Public Schools, Duluth (and all the other schools in N. Minnesota for that matter) are facing huge budget problems, declining enrollment, etc.. I could see my job being classified as expendable as resources keep getting more condensed and centralized. I think I will look at some of the suburbs though, thanks for the advice.

If your thinking of a family down the road, Portland is a good place for kids, but I think I'd still rather be in Duluth.

We are and the problem with Duluth Public Schools is that I would only consider sending my children to East. Sad, but true.

Though when it does get an inch or two the entire city shuts down. It's both hilarious AND very peaceful at the same time!

Haha, yeah that's nothing!
My wife and I are pretty neutral about snow. It's the cold that is the problem. I'm alright with say 20 degrees or even 10 degrees, but this past winter it was -30 a couple times and below zero for quite a long time... when you step out the door and the snot in your nose freezes instantly, you know it's cold.

Thanks for the answers and advice.

[roneb]

Since I haven't dissuaded you, I'll second looking at the Ladd's Addition and Sellwood neighborhoods. You could also consider the the Hollywood area near Grant High School; or Multnomah Village over on the west side. If you wanted to look farther out Sherwood is a beautiful community that is growing, but the commute on Hwy 99W is pretty bad now as there aren't any alternate routes from SW into Portland.

[Minervah]

My words of advice is if you are moving here without jobs, be sure to bring money, more than you have planned on and lots of it. I don't think your wife will be too successful here. Music teachers of all types are a dime a dozen. you didn't say what you did for a living but your $50k will probably not be matched in Portland.

I am sorry to be so negative but the problem is I have been seeing so many layoffs lately and salary cutbacks (myself included) it makes me very uneasy about people trying to move here without really knowing what the situation is all about for many people who are already here. It sounds like you are jumping from one frying pan into another.