Is Portland right for My Family (Phoenix, Oakland: renting, condo, house prices)

[PeixeGato]

I currently live in Northern California and love the Bay Area trio of cities (i.e. SF, Berkeley, Oakland). We moved here nearly 5 years ago and have loved every minute of it, however, now that we have kids and our priorities have changed, the reality of what it costs to live here is setting in. When I say the "cost of living here", I am referring to more than just the cost of housing. I am referring to the number of hours I and my wife will have to work in order to live the lifestyle we like. We value time with our family, time and money to vacation, etc. Living in the Bay Area is so expensive, that we just don't see having enough money to do all of that AND save money for our retirement.

That said, we have begun to look elsewhere for places to live and raise our family. We have a 2-year old and will likely have another before we are done. Portland is one city that came up on our radar and I want to hear what other people think. I grew up in the DC area and have lived in the NYC area and Ann Arbor, MI. In order to make it easier to answer my question, I will tell you what we are looking for in a new place:

1. We want to live in a med-sized city (i.e. pop between 200K and 1 million). NYC was too big and Ann Arbor was too small (when you exclude the student population) and spread out. We are not interested in living in the suburbs or in a rural area. As such, I'd prefer NOT to hear from people who have decided that city living is not for them or people who prefer living in the suburbs. As I mentioned, we love SF and Berkeley and if money were no object, we'd be living in one of those places.

2. We like going out to dinner, but hate chain restaurants. We enjoy cultural activities (local theater, music, dance, independent movies, etc). We like to go out to hear live music at night (love blues and jazz). We love going to music festivals and street fairs.

3. We want to live in a place where you can be car-free (or live with 1 car at most). We want to live in a place where people can walk, bike, or take public transport to restaurants and other stores. We want a place that has small independently owned shops. We want to be able to walk to parks with the kids. We would love to be able to sell the car and just join one of those car sharing groups for when we need to do our Target runs to buy TP, paper towels, etc.

4. We love outdoor activities and love being outside. Having a large house is not as important as being able to get outside and enjoy the great outdoors. We are active people and want to raise active kids.

5. Weather is important. I have crossed off places like Chicago and Mnpls because of the frigidly cold winters. While I can handle snow, I am not interested in long periods of below freezing temps. I also do not like the humidity that exists in DC during the summer, so Florida, DC, and Austin, TX are out. The extreme heat of Phoenix is also too much, even though there is no humidity. I like the moderate climate of the Bay Area, but realize that you won't really find that anywhere else.

6. Diversity is important. I am African American and my wife is white. It is important that our family doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and that we feel comfortable and welcomed. This is particularly important for our kids and their school experience. In addition to ethnic diversity, we want diversity in activities, architecture, age demographic (we prefer to be OLDER than the median age, we are in our late thirties), culinary options, etc.

7. We would prefer to put our kids in public school. However, we realize that overall, the quality of education in urban areas tends to be lower than that of suburban areas. Also, if the cost of living is low enough, we may be able to swing private schools, particularly if we can find one that is very diverse. It would also be more palatable if we are living in a city atmosphere where our kids will be able to get their fill of diversity in other ways.

8. Owning a home is VERY important to us. Its something we have always done (until we moved to the Bay Area) and its something we want to do in the place we decide to settle. We tried renting here and while there is nothing inherently wrong with it, we just prefer to live in a house that we own. And yes, we want a house, not a condo. I like to fire up the Grill and Smoker and I need some outdoor space where I can do that. We also like to entertain outdoors.

Well, that's pretty much what we are looking for in our search for a place to live. Based on this, would we be happy in Portland? What other things would we need to consider regarding Portland? Thanks in advance for your feedback.

BTW, I have posted this same thread in Denver. If you have any other cities we should consider, I'm all ears (or eyes).

[EnricoV]

I think Portland sounds like a great match for you. The biggest down-side is going to be a lack of diversity - but living in the city, will maximise it. It's once you get out into the suburbs that there's a serious lack of diversity. Though I don't think you'd encounter problems in either place. You sound like you have a realisitc expectation of life in the city, where you're going to find smaller houses, yards, etc. But I think there are ample public parks throughout the city that you won't find nature far from home.

I can't speak for Denver, but I would imagine you'd find the climate in Portland nearer to SF, though a bit wetter. But no, or very little, snow. It just doesn't get cold enough.

NW Portland (like zip codes 97209/97210) would put you in the more desirable school district, and would be close to NW 23rd shops, restaurants, etc. SE Portland, along Hawthorne, Belmont or Clinton/Divison would probably suit as well.

A website like Portland Neighborhood will give you lots of stats regarding the schools, crime, median house prices, etc.

[PeixeGato]

Originally Posted by EnricoV

A website like Portland Neighborhood will give you lots of stats regarding the schools, crime, median house prices, etc.

Thanks for your feedback. I'll definitely read through the website.

We like the idea of utilizing local parks for the kids' outdoor "play" space and time. You get much more of a community feel. So many people are now obsessed with everything having to happen at their own houses and not wanting to venture outside or down the block to do something. I always wonder, if everyone has such a huge yard so that "all of the neighborhood kids can come here to play", then isn't everyone playing in their own backyards by themselves, waiting for the other kids to come over?

One question, how does the persistence of the "grey and drizzly days" compare to Seattle?

[sleepyjeff]

1. Yes, Portland is a typical medium/large city.

2. Yes, Portland has more non-chain restaurants than any city I know of. Street fairs are growing in popularity here too.

3. Bike paths everywhere.....mass transit includes light rail lines, street cars, an aerial tram and of course buses that go just about everywhere.

4. From about mid-March thru October(and even into December sometimes) Portlanders like being outside....we have parks all over the place, many with fountains that the kids can splash in some with tennis courts and bike trails.

5. The weather is very similar to SF except maybe in the dead of winter where it can get a little cold(usually about 3 or 4 days of snow per year and every two or three years an ice storm will shut the city down for a couple of days.

6. There are some parts of Portland that are every bit as diverse as San Francisco/Berkely....and there are parts that are less so.

7. As Enrico stated above, NW Portland has some excellent public schools.

8. No problem there...Portland is still mostly a single family dwelling with a backyard type city...

[wannabe1]

I really think you would enjoy the Portland lifestyle based on your list of important things you need in a city.

[PeixeGato]

Thanks sleepyjeff and wannabe1. I guess in the end, I really need to spend some time in the city and get a personal feel for it. But everyone's comments have been very helpful in determining if I should keep Portland on my list of potential places (I will!).

[roxmorg]

If you like the moderate climate of the bay area or anywhere else, DO NOT move here!!! I cannot tell you how bad the rain is...honestly! I am from Denver, moved here about a year ago and cannot wait to go back. This is pure hell for those who like to get outdoors in the winter..or even summer. Trust me, I am no prissy girl when it comes to getting outdoors, but please trust me, you have no idea what you are in for. From July 4th - Sept.15, it is beautiful. So get a summer home ; ) My neighbor has 2 young kids and complains about portland not being family friendly. It may be a bit like San Fran in that regard. Remember rain in winter means that the ground does not freeze so when kids go out to play they are playing in mud pits at the park and in your yard. Sorry fellow Portlanders but I cannot lie. : ). You will thank me later.

[subsound]

Portland would match many of the things you're looking for, but if you don't want rain stay away.

I was living in Denver and moved to Portland, I would say Denver is the better option for affordability and mild climate (300 days of sunshine a year). It's more expensive in Portland for day to day things, like housing, food, transport (outside of public), and utilities. However, in Denver you pretty much need a car...I wouldn't take anything outside of lightrail. Plus check the school districts you'll be in, the smaller communities around Denver have better schools on average...but it can be variable.

If it were me, I would pick one of the northern suburbs of Denver like Broomfield, Westminster, Thornton. You lose a bit in energy costs, but housing, schools and shops are good. Plus a decent commute downtown for events and lodo areas. Not as many little independant resturants (Portland is king for those) but there's a big selection.

Boulder is like the Portland of Colorado, except the housing prices are through the roof. Easy and safe public transport, great little shops and resturants, upscale and liberal. Plus you have the university for all sorts of subsidised shows (since they are still in school).

[PeixeGato]

Originally Posted by subsound

If it were me, I would pick one of the northern suburbs of Denver like Broomfield, Westminster, Thornton. You lose a bit in energy costs, but housing, schools and shops are good. Plus a decent commute downtown for events and lodo areas. Not as many little independant resturants (Portland is king for those) but there's a big selection.

Boulder is like the Portland of Colorado, except the housing prices are through the roof. Easy and safe public transport, great little shops and resturants, upscale and liberal. Plus you have the university for all sorts of subsidised shows (since they are still in school).

Thanks, but I really am not interested in living in the suburbs. But your comments about Portland were helpful.

Are you saying that Boulder housing is more expensive than Portland, or the other way around? Depending on which it is, I may look into Boulder as well as Denver and Portland.

Regarding the rain, I guess you never know how you will react until you are there. It's not really something you can explain to someone.

Thanks again.

[rickca]

One thing about Denver.. the elevation and low humidity combined with the pollution from the city can be a bit rough.. I was there for a few days and felt sick the entire time, I just couldn't adjust for whatever reason to the climate, I always felt out of breath (and I'm young, in decent shape) definitely spend a few days there first to make sure you are ok with the climate I don't know if people adjust overall or what the deal is. For some reason when I drove on to Salt Lake City (which is still 4,000+ feet in elevation) I didn't feel the same way at all, so I don't know what it is about Denver but I don't think the claims of smog / pollution are overexaggerated at all on their forum. I don't mean to talk badly about Denver because I thought it was a pleasant place overall but its just something to think about.