Interstate Bridge (I5), an Oregon shame. (income tax, estimate, expense)

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

and, like most political decisions, my guess is that we'll end up with the worst ideas from both sides.

yes, it is so unfortunate, and to include an extension of the ULTRA impractical and 'snails-pace-slow', north interstate MAX line, with the empty dream commuters from downtown Vancouver to OR (of which their are few) will make enough ridership to justify this. (When they (politico) REALLY think the downtown Portland Shoppers will be drawn like a magnet to downtown Vancouver to shop (talk about a dream without merit...)

Transportation planners are a pretty handicapped in US, (politicians, Environmental laws, NIMBY's) and end up WAY behind the power curve.

The Interstate bridge traffic and lift schedule is way better than before I-205 went in. I knew lots of folks who commuted from Gresham to Camas via Interstate Bridge, and sometimes used Cascade Locks, and even Longview Bridges when the Interstate going was tough. The big trouble was the Memorial Day that it got stuck in UP position due to 100F+ day and thermal expansion of lift span. The fire boats had to spray it for about 5 hrs to get it down.

[subsound]

I can only speak for myself, but I would head up to Janzten Beach and Vancouver if there was a light rail line....otherwise it can be a hassle.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by beenhereandthere

I bet, if this was strictly Washington's call (the state), a new bridge would have already been built a long time ago.

If it was strictly Oregon's call, Washington would have had to put in that light rail line that Washington refused to.

That might have eased the traffic a bit.

I would imagine a large part of Oregon's lack of support is that it is, basically, spending a bunch of money so the people who choose to live in Washington can get to work, and back home, easier.

[PNW-type-gal]

Living in Washington, working in Oregon, you are still a tax-paying Oregon citizen - only without voting rights of any kind.

[beenhereandthere]

Originally Posted by EnricoV

If it was strictly Oregon's call, Washington would have had to put in that light rail line that Washington refused to.

That might have eased the traffic a bit.

I would imagine a large part of Oregon's lack of support is that it is, basically, spending a bunch of money so the people who choose to live in Washington can get to work, and back home, easier.

I based that on how quickly (unless they talked about this from the 70's) they got the New Narrows Bridge in Tacoma (about 7 years, since it was officially approved). Also, how WA widened I5 in Vancouver and got that up to date. OR sat on their asses (I5 is TWO lanes at one point in North Portland) and they won't correct it until next summer, 2010.

[Nell Plotts]

The cost of widening I-5 through Portland is several times the cost of Vancouver's widening.

Oregon expended a bundle more than Washington building I-205 to Washington and connecting it to I-84. Washington refused to contribute to the extension of light rail on that route too.

Were I an Oregon resident I wouldn't pay a fig to relieve WA traffic.

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by Nell Plotts

The cost of widening I-5 through Portland is several times the cost of Vancouver's widening.

Oregon expended a bundle more than Washington building I-205 to Washington and connecting it to I-84. Washington refused to contribute to the extension of light rail on that route too.

Were I an Oregon resident I wouldn't pay a fig to relieve WA traffic.

It is interesting that the perspective is really different weather looking north or south. It is my observation that the serious traffic issues are south of the river, not north until you reach near Olympia.

I don't commute and was not a witness to the 205 funding so I don't have a horse in this race but as these roadways are critical to both communities I do not understand the lack of cooperation. Washington residents pay more than 10 million a year in Oregon taxes so it seems contribution should not be an issue.

A bridge replacement is coming sooner or later and it would be really disappointing to drive the design with political bias instead of engineering that is best residents in both states.

[Nell Plotts]

Don't get me wrong, I am a WA resident! The attitude of the electorate in WA as always puzzled me.

Basically WA residents think that building freeways is the only solution to congestion and is reluctant to invest in mass transit.

With regard to WA residents paying taxes on income earned in OR, don't ignore the fact that the COSTCO out by the airport (take the first OR exit going south from WA on I-205) has the largest sales volume of any COSTCO... from WA residents avoiding sales tax.

In years gone by folks would live on the WA side of the Columbia because property taxes were lower. Now I hear that the difference is small because development in Clark County increased to the point that they had to invest in things like sewer systems and other infrastructure needs.

It puzzles me that Clark County hasn't developed an employment base comparable to, say, Washington County over the same time period. There must be a reason why so many Clark County residents commute south for employment - it isn't because they love the drive.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by cdelena

Washington residents pay more than 10 million a year in Oregon taxes so it seems contribution should not be an issue.

Roads are just one of the many expenses that Washington residents benefit from, and support by the taxes they pay (to the state, incidentally---not to the city), that are incurred in Portland. Considering the City of Portland's budget is in the neighborhood of 3 billion ... 10 million is a drop in the bucket.

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by EnricoV

Roads are just one of the many expenses that Washington residents benefit from, and support by the taxes they pay (to the state, incidentally---not to the city), that are incurred in Portland. Considering the City of Portland's budget is in the neighborhood of 3 billion ... 10 million is a drop in the bucket.

The majority of the funding is State of Oregon and State of Washington, with some matching federal funds thrown in - plus, most likely, tolls. Clark County and Multnomah County (and the cities of Portland and Vancouver) may pay some, but a lot of the project deals with interstate traffic beyond the metro area - the Portland area is considered a massive bottleneck for I-5 throughflow, even with the addition of I-205. (FYI, the worst I-5 bottlenecks are in LA and near Seattle where I-90 tees off.)