NYC --> Portland? (Diversity, hipsters) (Beaverton, Hillsboro: apartment, how much, find a job)

[Minervah]

As I mentioned previously, my girlfriend and I are repulsed by so much of what we see in a place like Williamsburg, Brooklyn, where everyone thinks they're being an individual, but really in the end seems more like the same thing over and over again.

Well this is just my opinion but that's exactly how I would describe Portland today. Okay I think I can explain. Remember the TV show "Northern Exposure"? When I first moved to Portland I met plenty of characters like those in the show. Very different unique and creative. Their were classes for adults which offered things like Harmonica 101 in which the teacher actually formed a harmonica band. There was a course in how to read mystery books by two women who started a book store. There were many more of this type including some great amature acting clases that actually put on plays. Hawthorne street considered today to be trendy and cool had old stores like the haggle shop where one could come in and bargain or barter unusual items. People coming to work downtown looked less harassed and hassled. We had a few real coffee shops, a great deli downtown and an open-produce market in the hear of downtown.
Today I see the young people with their SUV strollers, lattes, condos and McMansions. A warehouse district where there were hidden interesting stores now hold fancy hi-rises. Teenagers dress as Goth and are so busy conforming to conformity they don't realize how they all look like each other.
I short, I think Portland had become like any other town its size. No better no worse. The worst part of this town of course is the 10% unemployment rate, high cost of living and low wages. The better is the improvement in transportation, more shops, better restaraunts and bike lanes.
OK. That is my take on Portland; not necessarily bad except for the unemployment and wages, but just the way I see it. Cities change it's inevitable. But it sounds to me that the things you are wanting to get away from are also here.
I welcome others to chime in and talk about how they see this town. Maybe others can see more of what you are looking for.

[Todd.LA]

Portland is not especially diverse for a city of its size, but it's not as overwhelmingly white as some folks paint it. Obviously, you guys should come visit for yourselves, and you should try to have jobs lined up, as Portland has been pretty hard hit by the downturn. Oregon / Portland does have a growing Hispanic population, most of whom are Mexican. I suspect this is different from NYC, which is more Puerto Rican and Dominican. On the west coast generally, the Latino community is overwhelmingly Mexican and too a lesser degree Central American.

Lots of hipsters in Portland for sure, but it also varies by neighborhood. If you like quirky weirdness (without too many over-the-top hipster vibes), you might want to check out the Hawthorne neighborhood. Anyway, Portland sounds like a potential fit for you guys, but do come visit and find a job first.

[MayaLama]

My boyfriend and I are also in our late 20's, creative/alternative/healthy/eco types who recently returned to our home outside of Chicago after visiting friends in Portland for a week. We had visited for a few days in the past, but this time we got to know more of Portland, visited the AMAZING coast, and even made it to Olympia, WA close by. Now we are sure that we're going to move there, and are finding the strength to wait the several months until we do.

We both grew up in a very diverse (Mexican, Asian, African-American, European, etc. although mostly white) suburb of Chicago, and we lived in different diverse neighborhoods in the city of Chicago for several years. I love diversity, and we're an interracial couple too. People told us they wouldn't move to Portland because of the lack of diversity, but that was not my impression when we visited. Being Asian especially, I noticed people of different ethnicities (all from the above list), so it's not like a rarity. Portland of course was nothing like walking around downtown San Francisco, where I was practically high from the diversity of people walking around. I was concerned about the diversity issue before visiting Portland too, but I think, as a second generation Asian-American, the level of diversity will be fine for me. Where we live now, it's mostly white with some Asians, Middle-Eastern, and Latino families & businesses. I was happy to see some ethnic vegetarian restaurants in Portland, which is actually hard to find in Chicago. We are vegetarian and vegan, and hands down Portland beats Chicago in this area.

As far as the hipster thing, we stayed with friends so got to meet different people around our age. Everyone we met was very down to earth. At the vegetarian food coop in the SE by Hawthorne, I didn't notice one majority *type* of person, like hippie, hipster, anarchist, although I guess you could say we encountered all these types during our adventures around the city. The coop had a very nice community feel, with families, young people, older people, etc. Like any large city, there are different subcultures.

Speaking of the food coop, we noticed WAY cheaper prices for some food items compared to out here in Chicago. We also saw our friends living with much lower rent for larger square footage than what you would find in Chicago. So food and rent seems to be cheaper, and out there it's much more bike friendly (the bike lanes and the weather), and public trans costs less than in Chicago. Compared to here, the cost of living in Portland seems to be significantly lower. That's one reason we didn't choose San Francisco.

SO many people talk about the job market in Portland, but the unemployment rate in Chicago is almost the same as Portland. We have friends here in Chicago who are underemployed and who are successful and in between. It's the same in Portland. We see that wages may be lower on average in Portland, but this balances out with cost of living, from our perspective, and we noticed a greater incidence of part-time jobs that offer full benefits. This is rare in the Chicago area.

Our creative friends in Portland weren't losing a lot of their energy to stressful, full-time jobs or stressful underemployment - which is a theme here in Chicago. Maybe it's the cleaner air, the trees and parks, the unfluoridated water, the greener consciousness, the local resources - but we noticed that Portland is so much more actively creative! We're looking forward to being a part of that.

The friend we stayed with lives in the SE by Hawthorne, near Ladd's Addition. We're looking for jobs and a home in that general area, give or take a couple miles, with lots of trees and access to open space. Enjoy your trip to Portland! If you make it to the coast, Indian Beach at Ecola State Park was gorgeous, and we also LOVED Mt. Tabor Park in Portland.

[Minervah]

The friend we stayed with lives in the SE by Hawthorne, near Ladd's Addition. We're looking for jobs and a home in that general area, give or take a couple miles, with lots of trees and access to open space.

LAdd's addition is beautiful but the homes are very expensive. I would love to live there myself. It is a neighborhood full of trees and flowers. There is no open space there, the houses are pretty close together. The people I know who live there are professionals like a pharmacist who owns his own business and a businessman who owns his own accounting firm. There is little to rent there and what there is is very expensive. You won't find open space in the Hawthorne area either; it is too built up with "skinny" houses crammed in every once-vacant lot or yard.

I live in the Hawthorne area and I love it for the convenience and shops but it also isn't cheap. The one-bedrooms accross the street from me go for $895-$950. This is typical. My building is not typical, it is cheaper starting at $700 but the apartments are tiny.

I would disagree about the cost of living. That is the very reason many of my friends have moved to other towns over the years. Their salaries simply did not keep up with the ever-rising prices. Portland employers know they can pay less because of all the many people waiting for jobs here. I know my salary certainly hasn't kept pace.

Coops are usually cheaper than regular stores but if you have to shop elsewhere I think you will find prices comparatively higher than in other towns. When my family comes to visit from Chicago, they are always amazed at the price of things here. By the way, where is the coop to which you referr. I would love to find one but didn't realize there was one around Hawthorne.

Well, everyone has to see for themselves. I would be interested in hearing your opinion after you have lived here a year or two to see if you still feel the same about Portland.

[MayaLama]

Thanks for the reply! I will try to return and say something once we've been there for some time. Our friend in the SE, just south of 12th and Hawthorne on the border of Ladd's, shares a 2 bedroom house with two roommates, and they split three ways an $820/month rent. Two are students who work part-time. None of them are full time professionals.

Our other friend, who lives in the NE, is also surprised at the low price they pay for the house in such a great location. So such situations apparently do exist. The salary calculator here - http:// swz.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_start.asp matches what I've noticed so far, that rental costs in Portland are lower than Chicago, by over 6% according to the calculator, and salary is slightly lower, over 2%. Of course, everyone's experiences will be unique. We currently split a $1500 rent three ways for a 2 bedroom house just outside of Chicago, and we're ready to move to a place with much cheaper rent, even if the place is a lot smaller which I'm sure it will be. And the heating bill will be much cheaper too!

The grocery co-op is People's Food Co-op. We will really appreciate the greater availability of local, seasonal, organic food once we've moved. There are also more options, stuff you can't find here in the midwest. We did see cheaper prices, but maybe that's because we live in a north shore suburb, by a Whole Foods with probably some of the highest prices in the whole country. There are zero grocery co-ops in the Chicago area, but one is forming.

The lack of open space is too bad, but there are more, bigger, and more beautiful parks in Portland, including in the SE, than Chicago. Open space is precious in any city. Can you suggest any other areas to check out for rental apartments or homes, a bit further south or west?

[emh]

Was at a presentation today in which an epidemiologist mentioned that Oregon will be less than 50% caucasian in 15 years. Very surprising to hear.

[MayaLama]

Originally Posted by MayaLama

Can you suggest any other areas to check out for rental apartments or homes, a bit further south or west?

That should read - further south or east?

[Minervah]

The lack of open space is too bad, but there are more, bigger, and more beautiful parks in Portland, including in the SE, than Chicago.

Well Chicago is a lot bigger and has 7600 acres of parks spread throughout the cities. Some have lagoons, small zoos, riding and hiking trails, plant conservatories and lots of big beautiful trees. But anyway the only places I can think of where there would be large backyards and space between houses or apartment buildings here would be in the towns surrounding Portland.

You can find less expensive apartments than the going rate in Portland but you have to really search for them. Suburbs I think are cheaper if you like the 'burbs. I personally would rather pay the price for city living where I don't need a car and can still get around easily.

[MayaLama]

Originally Posted by Minervah

Well Chicago is a lot bigger and has 7600 acres of parks spread throughout the cities. Some have lagoons, small zoos, riding and hiking trails, plant conservatories and lots of big beautiful trees. But anyway the only places I can think of where there would be large backyards and space between houses or apartment buildings here would be in the towns surrounding Portland.

You can find less expensive apartments than the going rate in Portland but you have to really search for them. Suburbs I think are cheaper if you like the 'burbs. I personally would rather pay the price for city living where I don't need a car and can still get around easily.

Absolutely. We are looking for a place in the city and will be biking everywhere.

Chicago has some nice gardens, an amazing organic farm network in the whole upper midwest, I LOVE the Garfield Park Conservatory, but from my personal experience as a resident of several years, the combo of very high pollution and population density, lack of greenery especially in the long winter months, and the fact that Chicago is HUGE, even with so many acres of parks you could easily be living in a location far from open space with trees (especially without a car), makes it that there is a significant upgrade in the nature and open space of Portland, not to mention all the places to visit surrounding Portland. Really, depending on where you are in Chicago, there's not that many trees at all.

This may sound a bit pessimistic or something, but some of the largest green spaces with lots of big trees in Chicago are the cemeteries, like the one we lived close to. A couple times we took walks in our neighborhood cemetery, because it was the closest place around with space and trees. Another cemetery in our old neighborhood, Rosehill Cemetery, gives historic tours.

Portland is the only major U.S. city with a state park in city boundaries (Tryon Creek State Park). And the trees are taller and more dense in Portland's parks, from what I've seen. I plan on appreciating all this a lot when we move. I grew up in the Chicago area, so there's much to love here I agree, but it's not where I'm meant to live. Portland's not perfect, but it is very different than Chicago.

[Minervah]

Hey, my parents used to live walking distance from Rosehill. My dad took his daily walks there. I grew up until I was 8 in the Garfield Park area. My aunt lived near Humbolt Park.

I agree Chicago is too big a city. After living in a city the size of Portland I couldn't go back. That's why it is not on my list of places to which I want to relocate in couple of years.