NYC --> Portland? (Diversity, hipsters) (Burns: neighborhood, living, versus)

[Johnnie Bee]

Originally Posted by adamgerbs

Hi this is Adam, the original poster again. I've enjoyed reading the enlightening comments, and just had some other thoughts spinning around my head from reading. I didn't mention specifically before where I live in outer-borough NYC...

Yep. Heard it all before. Same thing from all of my NY acquaintances who either chose to move to Portland or Florida. You've said nothing new. Again, everyone hated Portland and moved back. Everyone hated Florida, too, and moved back. There were different reasons the NY'ers hated Florida, but still they hated it and moved back.

I wouldn't recommend Portland for you. You're no different from anyone else I know. Same old arguments, nothing new. I also know this post won't mean a thing to you at this moment in time.

But you WILL think about it when you move back!

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by Johnnie Bee

Yep. Heard it all before. Same thing from all of my NY acquaintances who either chose to move to Portland or Florida. You've said nothing new. Again, everyone hated Portland and moved back. Everyone hated Florida, too, and moved back. There were different reasons the NY'ers hated Florida, but still they hated it and moved back.

I wouldn't recommend Portland for you. You're no different from anyone else I know. Same old arguments, nothing new. I also know this post won't mean a thing to you at this moment in time.

But you WILL think about it when you move back!

I had a supervisor once who came from New Jersey and a co-worker who came from New York. Both wound up going back to their respective states. Although in the case of the New Jersey guy, he and his 12 year old son returned but his wife divorced him and stayed in Portland.

I think New Yorkers are so into their town they have a certain bond to it. I have only visited once and I really liked it. It's so diversified it's like living in an entire world on one island. Very different from Portland. I am not making a judgement on either one; just sayin'.

[5gypsies]

Adamgerbs, my husband is from outside NYC and I am Latin American.I lived in Zurich and NY my elementary school years. I also have lived in Chicago ,Florida, D.C and later again in N.Y.
So believe me when I tell you that I have found Portland to be very narrow minded when it comes to other cultures not to mention that there is only ONE culture here and that is to be an Oregonian. You have to be born here in order to be accepted. When you mention the East coast they think it's another country far, far away. I speak english and spanish fluently, I am white and have blue eyes and I can honestly tell you that I have been discriminated here in this state. Oregonians are not welcoming to other cultures,they are cold and distant with people from other states that are not West Coast people. It is like a high school click out here.My husband being from NY has been treated differently also. Bottom line WE ARE MOVING BACK TO THE EAST COAST !!!THERE IS NO DIVERSITY HERE !! We have 3 children and do not want to raise them in this environment. I think coming from NYC you will experience a huge culture shock out here! We gave it a try out here for 9 years, lived in different neighborhoods in Portland and it just never worked out. As soon as you tell them where you and your wife are from, believe me ,you will see a change in peoples attitudes toward you. My advice to you would be to say there....NY has so much to offer! If you really want to move out of NY try to stay in the east coast ! West coast mentality will bore you to death in a minute. This is a beautiful state with a lot of outdoor things to do (in the 6 to 8 wekks of no rain or summer that they call here) but what really makes up a state is their people.....this is just not a friendly place to be when you are coming from another state or country. Very racist.

[subsound]

Originally Posted by 5gypsies

Adamgerbs, my husband is from outside NYC and I am Latin American.I lived in Zurich and NY my elementary school years. I also have lived in Chicago ,Florida, D.C and later again in N.Y.
So believe me when I tell you that I have found Portland to be very narrow minded when it comes to other cultures not to mention that there is only ONE culture here and that is to be an Oregonian. You have to be born here in order to be accepted. When you mention the East coast they think it's another country far, far away. I speak english and spanish fluently, I am white and have blue eyes and I can honestly tell you that I have been discriminated here in this state. Oregonians are not welcoming to other cultures,they are cold and distant with people from other states that are not West Coast people. It is like a high school click out here.My husband being from NY has been treated differently also. Bottom line WE ARE MOVING BACK TO THE EAST COAST !!!THERE IS NO DIVERSITY HERE !! We have 3 children and do not want to raise them in this environment. I think coming from NYC you will experience a huge culture shock out here! We gave it a try out here for 9 years, lived in different neighborhoods in Portland and it just never worked out. As soon as you tell them where you and your wife are from, believe me ,you will see a change in peoples attitudes toward you. My advice to you would be to say there....NY has so much to offer! If you really want to move out of NY try to stay in the east coast ! West coast mentality will bore you to death in a minute. This is a beautiful state with a lot of outdoor things to do (in the 6 to 8 wekks of no rain or summer that they call here) but what really makes up a state is their people.....this is just not a friendly place to be when you are coming from another state or country. Very racist.

I think the definition of racism is not that people don't like others from different states, but that people don't like others of different races...that's a minor difference. Also, if you are making a decision based on the fact that there is a lot of white people, or the assumption that all other white people are racists...that is pretty racist to me even if one is white themselves.

I've only lived here a year, and I haven't seen a single person not welcoming of a different culture, unless you want people to be hanging on your every word about where you came from.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by 5gypsies

Adamgerbs, my husband is from outside NYC and I am Latin American.I lived in Zurich and NY my elementary school years. I also have lived in Chicago ,Florida, D.C and later again in N.Y.
So believe me when I tell you that I have found Portland to be very narrow minded when it comes to other cultures not to mention that there is only ONE culture here and that is to be an Oregonian. You have to be born here in order to be accepted. When you mention the East coast they think it's another country far, far away. I speak english and spanish fluently, I am white and have blue eyes and I can honestly tell you that I have been discriminated here in this state. Oregonians are not welcoming to other cultures,they are cold and distant with people from other states that are not West Coast people. It is like a high school click out here.My husband being from NY has been treated differently also. Bottom line WE ARE MOVING BACK TO THE EAST COAST !!!THERE IS NO DIVERSITY HERE !! We have 3 children and do not want to raise them in this environment. I think coming from NYC you will experience a huge culture shock out here! We gave it a try out here for 9 years, lived in different neighborhoods in Portland and it just never worked out. As soon as you tell them where you and your wife are from, believe me ,you will see a change in peoples attitudes toward you. My advice to you would be to say there....NY has so much to offer! If you really want to move out of NY try to stay in the east coast ! West coast mentality will bore you to death in a minute. This is a beautiful state with a lot of outdoor things to do (in the 6 to 8 wekks of no rain or summer that they call here) but what really makes up a state is their people.....this is just not a friendly place to be when you are coming from another state or country. Very racist.

This statement right there shows that anything you have to say is more than likely a gross exaggeration, and probably shouldn't be taken seriously.

[kander63]

I grew up in Chicago, and as an adult have lived in NYC (3 years), Chicago (5), Madison, WI (2 yrs), San Francisco (7 yrs) and am now on my 5th year in Portland. I love it here, but it is not for everyone. My significant other does not like it as much as I do and really wants to move back to SF. Part of it is that he feels like he doesn't fit in here, partly because of ethnicity and partly because of personality.

The things I like about it, in no particular order
1) the natural beauty of the area,
2) the lower cost of housing means that we live in a house that is over twice the size of what we had in SF, and it's in a nicer neighborhood
3) People here are more relaxed and are less aggressive drivers
4) The farmer's markets
5) People are less driven and career-obsessed than in the bigger cities I've lived in
6) Great food/restaurant scene
7) Great hiking and outdoor recreation
8) Lots of beautiful homes on tree-lined streets, many with nice gardens
9) I can go out to eat downtown, or to a movie or a concert, and not have to allow 30 minutes to find a parking space

The downsides:

1) Winters are gloomy
2) It is not the most diverse place, and it is somewhat insular compared to bigger cities. It can be hard to break in, both socially and into the job market, if you didn't grow up here or haven't lived here a very long time
3) Job market is not great even in the best of times, and it's horrendous now. Unless you are an athletic footwear designer, it's not the place to build a career. I've had to accept a cut in both level and pay in order to find work here, and my experience is not uncommon. Salaries are not very good compared to the cost of living.

Something that I see as neither good or bad, but just an observation is that the Portland metro area overall is much more white-bread, middle of the road and conservative than what the popular image of Portland is. There are plenty of left-wing, tattooed vegan hipsters in inner Portland, but that is not the majority of people here. Also, while statistics show that Oregon is one of the most "unchurched" states in the country, a higher percentage of people here who are religious are evangelical than in many big cities. Where I worked (now unemployed), many people were quite conservative, and had pro-Republican stickers on their cubicles and such. I had no problem with any of them, but if anyone is coming here expecting some kind of liberal nirvana, you are going to be disappointed. Of course, if you live on the inner East side as I do, you'll come pretty close

My gut feeling is that the OP should not move here. It is a great place in many ways, but there is nothing magic about it, and just moving to Portland will not assuage whatever existential angst he is going through.

At the very least anybody who wants to relocate here should do two things:

1) Watch the movie "Drugstore Cowboy". While not all of Portland is like that by any means, it does a great job of capturing the feel of Portland at its most depressing.

2) Visit in the winter and stay at least a week. Then ask yourself if you could put up with 5 months of that weather. If you are prone to Seasonal depression, this is not the place for you.

[PDXKompressor]

I just posted a comment on the topic of diversity here but will give a brief overview for you. Portland is the whitest city I have ever lived in (Indianapolis, NYC, Los Angeles) and the long term locals tend to be pretty closed minded I hate to say. Those living in the actual city itself are more open but this too dissolves the further out you go. I am on the outskirts of the city boundaries, but well within populated area, and notice a big difference from here to just 15-minutes clsoer to downtown.

If you really want a good experience for young hipsters try the SE neighborhoods near 39th and Hawthorne or Belmont Streets. They remind me the most of NYC streets and Laurelhurst Park near there is like a mini Central Park and a gathering place for locals in good weather (or bad).

[sundaysmile]

I've lived in Portland for over a year now, and for the most part I've found it to be an excellent place to live -- easy to get around, beautiful scenery, nice people, fabulous public transportation, etc. Like you, I prefer to get around without a car, and haven't had ANY problem living without one here. It definitely isn't as culturally savvy as a big city like NY and I think you'll need to find out for yourself, when you visit, whether or not that will be a problem for you. The population here tends to be very proud of the city and of Oregon in general... which is nice in many ways, but it also lends itself to a more insular feel and prevents Portland from being truly cosmopolitan.

As a 20-something myself, I want to address your concern about the trendy/hipsterness of Portland. This is actually one of my biggest grievances about living here. I don't want to generalize the entire population, so bear in mind there are MANY exceptions to this... I'm just talking in a very general sense.

A good portion of this age bracket -- especially in certain parts of the city -- seems so concerned with being non-conformist that the drive to be unique actually becomes hypocritical. Everyone is trying to be an individual, but it just leads to a new type of alt-conformity where people still look the same as each other, because the avoidance of popular trends causes folks to flock to the same alternative hobbies, fashions, music, etc.

When I first moved here, I was blown away by the wacky Portland style and amazed at how unique everyone looked. However, after a while it becomes almost redundant -- so many people have the same haircut, the same thick-rimmed glasses, the same shoes, the same neon leggings... frequenting the same record stores, comic book stores, and thrift shops... etc. Portland definitely has a 20-something "culture" but it is, in my opinion, fairly superficial and bound up in trivialities.

Of course, there are plenty of people who *aren't* part of the trendy/hipster crowd, but compared to other places I've lived and visited, Portland has a surprisingly large amount of such people.

Coupled with this, there seems to be a distinct lack of motivation and ambition within this age group. I moved here from a small-ish college town where most of the young folks were studying and working towards degrees. Here, the attitude is MUCH different -- I think because Portland is lauded as being the holy grail for all things artsy, indie, and progressive, young people come here hoping to find a niche for whatever talent/dream their parents didn't approve of... leading to a population where people are happy just going with the flow, trying to make it as an artist/writer/musician and working at a coffee shop on the side in order to pay rent.

Socially, Portlanders are very nice and laid-back, but I've heard from many people (and experienced myself) that it's difficult to make genuine friends and break into a social circle. I don't know if this is just a local attitude or if it's due to the fact that so many people are coming here and leaving (creating a very transitory population) -- probably the latter. Either way, the sense of community here, from what I've experienced, tends to be based on a widespread communal love for the city, which "unites" everyone in a fairly impersonal way.

However, much of this could apply to other cities as well, for all I know -- this is just my angle from Portland specifically.

And apart from the above issues, I want to say again that this is a very beautiful, livable city. If you and your girlfriend can manage to get jobs here -- assuming you like it when you visit -- the experience of living here is definitely worth it. You don't have to stay forever if you decide it isn't right for you. Good luck!

[Todd.LA]

Originally Posted by sundaysmile

I've lived in Portland for over a year now, and for the most part I've found it to be an excellent place to live -- easy to get around, beautiful scenery, nice people, fabulous public transportation, etc. Like you, I prefer to get around without a car, and haven't had ANY problem living without one here. It definitely isn't as culturally savvy as a big city like NY and I think you'll need to find out for yourself, when you visit, whether or not that will be a problem for you. The population here tends to be very proud of the city and of Oregon in general... which is nice in many ways, but it also lends itself to a more insular feel and prevents Portland from being truly cosmopolitan.

As a 20-something myself, I want to address your concern about the trendy/hipsterness of Portland. This is actually one of my biggest grievances about living here. I don't want to generalize the entire population, so bear in mind there are MANY exceptions to this... I'm just talking in a very general sense.

A good portion of this age bracket -- especially in certain parts of the city -- seems so concerned with being non-conformist that the drive to be unique actually becomes hypocritical. Everyone is trying to be an individual, but it just leads to a new type of alt-conformity where people still look the same as each other, because the avoidance of popular trends causes folks to flock to the same alternative hobbies, fashions, music, etc.

When I first moved here, I was blown away by the wacky Portland style and amazed at how unique everyone looked. However, after a while it becomes almost redundant -- so many people have the same haircut, the same thick-rimmed glasses, the same shoes, the same neon leggings... frequenting the same record stores, comic book stores, and thrift shops... etc. Portland definitely has a 20-something "culture" but it is, in my opinion, fairly superficial and bound up in trivialities.

Of course, there are plenty of people who *aren't* part of the trendy/hipster crowd, but compared to other places I've lived and visited, Portland has a surprisingly large amount of such people.

Coupled with this, there seems to be a distinct lack of motivation and ambition within this age group. I moved here from a small-ish college town where most of the young folks were studying and working towards degrees. Here, the attitude is MUCH different -- I think because Portland is lauded as being the holy grail for all things artsy, indie, and progressive, young people come here hoping to find a niche for whatever talent/dream their parents didn't approve of... leading to a population where people are happy just going with the flow, trying to make it as an artist/writer/musician and working at a coffee shop on the side in order to pay rent.

Socially, Portlanders are very nice and laid-back, but I've heard from many people (and experienced myself) that it's difficult to make genuine friends and break into a social circle. I don't know if this is just a local attitude or if it's due to the fact that so many people are coming here and leaving (creating a very transitory population) -- probably the latter. Either way, the sense of community here, from what I've experienced, tends to be based on a widespread communal love for the city, which "unites" everyone in a fairly impersonal way.

However, much of this could apply to other cities as well, for all I know -- this is just my angle from Portland specifically.

And apart from the above issues, I want to say again that this is a very beautiful, livable city. If you and your girlfriend can manage to get jobs here -- assuming you like it when you visit -- the experience of living here is definitely worth it. You don't have to stay forever if you decide it isn't right for you. Good luck!

Sundaysmile perfectly captured the pluses and minuses of being a 20-something in Portland, especially relating to the whole hipster scene.

[subsound]

Originally Posted by Todd.LA

Sundaysmile perfectly captured the pluses and minuses of being a 20-something in Portland, especially relating to the whole hipster scene.

Sadly, it is kind of eerily accurate to what I see with my own eyes.