Portland, Seattle, or Denver? (sales, unemployment rate, neighborhoods)

[JProg305]

Hi all, I know that this question has been asked before. I am interested in finding out what Portland locals think about comparing these two cities. Is this comparison misguided because of the very diffrent nature of these cities or is it valid for a progressive/liberal individual who is educated, interested in outdoor pursuits, and wanting to transition to a car free or less car dependent lifestyle to be considering these three cities as possible places for relocation. Personally, I'd like to move to the Pacific Northwest just to try someplace different. I like the idea of the cool, moist, temperate weather. My girlfriend, however, is worried that the overcast winters will give her seasonal affective disorder (S.A.D.). Because of that, we have tried to find cities that combine elements that we are both looking for. Compromising is hard! From what I understand, all three cities are fairly liberal or progressive (with Portland and Seattle being slightly more liberal and Denver being slightly more libertarian). All three cities have light rail transit systems (Although I know that Seattle's streetcar/lightrail is in it's infancy), good brewpubs, outdoor oppotunities, community gardens, good festivals, good nightlife, good cultural opportunities, etc. What are some of the major differences (other than weather)? I'm looking more for a comparison of the intangibles (local culture, attitude, tolerance and acceptance, etc.). One of the things I like about Denver is the apparent racial/ethnic diversity. I'm latino and I'm kind of scared of moving to the Portland area because of the relative lack of diversity, but I'm also open to new experiences and I wouldn't let that sort of thing stop me from doing what I want to do. Anyways, help me out Portlanders!!! Also, in an attempt to curry favor with some of the locals,......go Blazers!!!

[Todd.LA]

Go Blazers indeed. I was at the last Blazers game down here in LA (vs. the Clippers), and there were almost more Blazers jerseys around than Clippers. Now to you actual question...

I've lived in both Seattle and Portland, but I can't speak much to Denver. Although Portland and Seattle are rivals, the cities are really quite similar, and Denver is probably the most different city of the three. As between Seattle and Portland, Portland is probably the better city to go car-free in, as the mass transit is a bit better developed in Portland and the city is a bit more compact.

Seattle is usually a better city to get a job in, as it has more large, international companies based up there (Microsoft, Amazon, Nintendo USA, Nordstrom, Costco, T-Mobile USA, Starbucks, Boeing [technically now Chicago based, but still a major Seattle employer]) than Portland (Nike, Adidas USA, Columbia Sportswear, Intel [not based in Portland, but lots of jobs]). In general, it seems like Portland and Oregon tend to have higher unemployment rates than Seattle and Washington. Though, given WaMu's failure, maybe that will change...

Portland is a bit cheaper to live in, with lower rents and no sales tax. Seattle is a better city to have a high income in, as there is no state income tax.

In a related vein, both cities have lefty politics, but sometimes Portland's can take on more of an anti-business tone than Seattle, which seems to embrace its businesses community and economic growth a bit more (e.g., the City of Portland put up so many bureaucratic obstacles to Columbia Sportswear to opening its new headquarters in Portland that the company moved out to the suburbs).

Seattle has a better airport, with more direct domestic flights and international flights than Portland. Denver is a big domestic hub, but I think Seattle still has more direct international flights, especially to Asia.

Seattle gets slightly more rain and overcast days than Portland. Portland's summer weather is definitely better, with temps being a bit higher and with fewer overcast days (it helps being inland). Overall, though, brace yourself for long periods of seeing very little sunshine in the winter for both cities. Having grown up with that weather, I don't mind it, but the lack of sun drives some people crazy. The summers are great, however, and being pretty far north, the sun is out quite late too.

Both Seattle and Portland are pretty white, as major cities go, Seattle somewhat less so. Both are quite liberal and tolerant. Both are quite gay-friendly and have relatively large LGBT populations (Seattle is 12.9% LGBT and Portland is 8.8%).

Seattle has a bit more of a cosmopolitan, big city feel to it than Portland, while Portland has more distinctive, interesting neighborhoods than Seattle.

Anyway, you should obviously visit both places (and Denver) before deciding where to go. There's decent Amtrak train service between the two cities, so if you flew out to one city, you could easily spend a day or two in the other. Good luck!

[JProg305]

Hey Todd.LA, thanks for the feedback. The Blazers stomped the Nuggets two days ago and I was amazed. What a fun, energetic, young team. I'll always be a Miami Heat fan because I was born and raised in Miami, but the Blazers are in my top five for sure. Anyways, your post was informative. I plan on visiting the Pacific Northwest in early to mid August and I'd like to visit Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver if possible. I'm still trying to figure out the cheapest, fastest, and most efficient way to do that. Even though Seattle is more cosmopolitan, larger, and has a better airport, I still find myself drawn to Portland for some unidentifiable reason. Maybe it's the comprehensive public transportation. I'd like to pound the pavement in all of the three aforementioned cities and get a feel for each one. As for Denver, there's a good possibility that I might try to fly in for the Great American Beer Festival in September, but we'll see. Thanks again.

[StealthRabbit]

I'd stop in Boulder, CO on your way west and stay awhile. I prefer it to Denver (Have done CO for 1/2 life + PNW for 1/2 life)

You might end up in the PNW later, but then you will wonder if you should have tried Colorado, so just try it first (that's where I would be if I had the option). S.A.D. is a serious concern, and there will not be a "compromise" if it is truly an issue. If you progress to the 'commitment' stage of the relationship, you WILL be moving from the PNW if S.A.D. is destroying your loved one. (No sense starting here).

Between Seattle and Portland, it is a tough call, I would try both. Seattle is pretty high paced, but has more opportunities. Portland has it's own 'culture', but outdoorsy and laid back, but with better public transit (and much less spread out). Public Transit will not get you to the beach very easily, so if being on the waterfront is important, go for Seattle (tho it is not a 'beach'. )

[JProg305]

I really need to visit all three cities pronto. Denver might actually be a better fit for me, culturally. I'd be comfortable around a good mix of black, latino, and asian people. In Portland, I feel like I wouldn't be able to blend in as much. I consider myself to be very progressive or liberal, but it's not necessary that I live in a city where every single person is on the same page, politically speaking. Denver has some interesting initiatives and programs. I like the marijuana laws, the bikesharing and carsharing programs, the plan to end homelessness, the community gardens, and some of the other features of the sustainable development initiative.

[backdrifter]

You really don't need to worry about the lack of diversity in the NW. It is nice to have that diversity (Portland is the whitest major city in the country), but as a fellow Latino, it's never been a problem here for me, and my mom has only EVER had one small problem in a small, then-somewhat-backwards logging town in 1983 with someone having a racist attitude. No one else I know has ever had any problems including Filipino-Americans, Japanese-Americans, and African-Americans. You won't have the same heavily Latino culture that you get in South Florida or Southern California, but it's very benign anyway. Everyone kind of blends in, though you may not feel like you do coming from somewhere more diverse.

And I should add that Portland has car-sharing and a plan to end homelessness. But we'll see how that latter one goes...

And to current and former Portlanders: Wasn't there a bike sharing program at some point? What ever happened to that?

[JProg305]

Thanks, backdrifter. The lack of diversity doesn't bother me too much and I figured that Portland was large enough to provide a cosmopolitan and diverse urban experience. I've heard about alot of Portland's policies and programs as well, the plan to end homelessness, the economic opportunity act, the homeless resource center downtown, the emphasis on transit oriented development and sustainable development in general. I study sustainable urban development initiatives so both cities have interesting developments. It seems like Portland has been doing it for a longer period of time.

[Todd.LA]

Originally Posted by JProg305

Hey Todd.LA, thanks for the feedback. The Blazers stomped the Nuggets two days ago and I was amazed. What a fun, energetic, young team. I'll always be a Miami Heat fan because I was born and raised in Miami, but the Blazers are in my top five for sure. Anyways, your post was informative. I plan on visiting the Pacific Northwest in early to mid August and I'd like to visit Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver if possible. I'm still trying to figure out the cheapest, fastest, and most efficient way to do that. Even though Seattle is more cosmopolitan, larger, and has a better airport, I still find myself drawn to Portland for some unidentifiable reason. Maybe it's the comprehensive public transportation. I'd like to pound the pavement in all of the three aforementioned cities and get a feel for each one. As for Denver, there's a good possibility that I might try to fly in for the Great American Beer Festival in September, but we'll see. Thanks again.

I should say, I actually like Portland better than Seattle for its overall vibe and culture (I'm biased since I'm from there), but it's way harder to find a good job in Portland. Both cities are great though.

As far as visiting, I'd look to fly into Seattle, since it's midway between Vancouver and Portland. Vancouver will be the most expensive to fly to, since you have to pay a bunch of international taxes. If the flights to Portland are cheaper, though, you could fly into Portland just as easily as Seattle.

[Neal2009]

I would recommend both a stay during the winter and summer. You will fall in love with the northwest if you come in the summer, but dont let that be the deal breaker. You should spend a month here in the winter and if you can handle that okay then you are good to go

[subsound]

It kind of depends what you want most out of a city. Take a look at all three and take a list, then see how they compare. I think Denver is a great all around city, I'm not too impressed with Portland really myself after a year, and I need to visit Seattle more to get a good feel (I plan to more this summer).