Law School--Portland or Eugene--need advice!

[hgurke]

Originally Posted by Todd.LA

I would advise caution about financing law school with substantial student loan debt, unless you have a good idea of what you want to do with your law degree before you start. You'll likely take on close to six figures in debt, if you finance just your tuition and not living expenses. Google "Loyola 2L" for a well-known tale of woe of someone who financed a law degree at a second tier law school, did fairly well (top 25% grades), and did not substantially improve his earning potential.

In general, law is an insanely pedigree-obsessed profession, so the more highly-ranked the law school you attend, the better your career opportunities. Many large firms will want your grades to be in the top 5-10% of your class, if your law school is ranked outside the top 25. All law schools, outside of a handful of super-elite schools, have inflexible grading curves, which strictly stipulate the percentage of A, B, and C (and sometimes D) grades that must be given in each course. Everyone is not a winner in law school.

This year was an especially competitive year for admissions because the job market is so poor, so if you are presently employed, it might be wiser in the long term to take an LSAT prep course, re-take the LSAT, otherwise work on improving your application materials (e.g., essays, recommendations, etc.), and re-apply next year, with a stronger application. Check out How to Get into the Top Law Schools for general admissions advice and an excellent first chapter that gives a realistic (if somewhat bleak) assessment of the pros and cons of a legal education and legal careers.

All of the three schools you mentioned are ranked in the US News Tier 2, and they all tend to place their graduates primarily in their home regions. Chicago is a far larger legal market, with many more opportunities than Portland, so if you think you would want to end up there, I'd go with DePaul. If you want to work in Portland after you graduation (recognizing that there are far fewer jobs there), then either LC or Oregon would be fine. LC is ranked a bit higher than Oregon this year, but my impression is that the two schools have a roughly comparable reputation. The Univ. of Washington law school in Seattle, however, is definitely the most highly regarded in the Pacific Northwest, so if you want to attend law school in the region, attending UW would open the most career doors for you.

In sum, I'm not endorsing the legal profession's absurd obsession with prestige and pedigree (indeed, it's pretty shallow and stupid), nor am I saying that students who attended non-elite law schools (i.e., ranked lower than top 25-ish) cannot have successful legal careers (indeed, many do). But, it's important that you recognize that this prestige obsession exists and that the choice of what law school to attend will play an enormous role in determining what career options are open to you after you graduate. Good luck!

I am content with the schools I was accepted to. I have been wanting to relocate to the Pacific Northwest for quite awhile--to Portland, in particular--and the schools I applied to are the two largest "feeder" law schools in the Portland legal market. I want to practice tax/estate law in Portland, and eventually start my own comprehensive financial/estate planning firm...I appreciate the sound advice & thorough response, in any case. I have heard the horror stories about law, but to be honest, I'm not certain that the job market would be any better if I ended up not going to law school--many of my friends from undergrad, who graduated 1-3 years ago, are still looking for a professional position, and many of them have business degrees. One of my friends graduated with a 4.0 from my alma mater (a well-known Catholic university in Chicago) two years ago and finally found a job as a secretary for a health care company about six months ago. The job market in Portland might be smaller, but from what I have seen, while the job market in Chicago is undoubtedly larger, it is not much better, as every college graduate in the Midwest relocates here after college in search of professional positions. My situation is not much better than my mentioned friend's: I graduated summa *** laude with a Finance degree a year ago and just recently found a temp-to-hire accounting position for a company, from the looks of their financial records, have six months tops before going bankrupt...I'm not excited about taking on significant debt, but law school coincides with my personal goals, and to be frank, I did not work so damn hard in college to settle for a glorified bookkeeping position...again, thanks for the advice.

[hgurke]

Originally Posted by rockybird

Well, I just want to say congratulations! I know good applicants who are applying to law school and did not get into these schools. It's a competitive pool right now. It was different times, but my father went to U. of O and is very successful practicing in AK right now. I grew up in AK also. If I were you, I would choose the best school. Does going to school at night postpone your graduation (ie a year's salary)? If Depaul is the best school of the three, and Chicago has a busy legal market, maybe it would be the preferable choice? However, it would be hard for me to turn down U O, personally, but ultimately I would choose the best school. One thing my father still says to this day, and that is that he does not miss the rain in Oregon. (I live in AZ but am considering a terrific job offer in PDX).

thanks for the congratulations! Evening school extends my time in law school from 6 months to 1 year; however, I was given the option of transferring into the full-time day program after the first year in order to graduate in three years. However, the opportunity cost might be higher if I attended law school during the day; if I work full time in my field (finance/accounting), hopefully my salary will help counter the cost of tuition. I think I have decided on Lewis & Clark...I love U of O, but it is a full-time day program, and Eugene's job market is supposed to be even more dismal than Portland & Chicago's...too bad. I love U of O!

[elizabethn2009]

You might also check out this article. Portland is very popular but a tough place to find a legal job.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124242099361525009.html


"Boly:Welch Recruiting, a Portland firm, says it has had several lawyers willing to settle for work as paralegals. The firm says it generally won't place the lawyers because their over-qualification makes it unlikely they would continue to do paralegal work when the economy turns.

Stephen Anderson, 28, a lawyer who moved in June to Portland from Austin, says for now, he's happy being over-qualified. He went to Boly:Welch looking for legal or temp work of any kind, and the recruiting firm ended up hiring him to be an assistant to the firm's recruiters, a job that includes answering phones, getting lunches and occasionally walking the owner's two poodles. "I know I'm underemployed and if it bothered me more, I guess I'd do more to change it," he says."

[hgurke]

Originally Posted by elizabethn2009

You might also check out this article. Portland is very popular but a tough place to find a legal job.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124242099361525009.html


"Boly:Welch Recruiting, a Portland firm, says it has had several lawyers willing to settle for work as paralegals. The firm says it generally won't place the lawyers because their over-qualification makes it unlikely they would continue to do paralegal work when the economy turns.

Stephen Anderson, 28, a lawyer who moved in June to Portland from Austin, says for now, he's happy being over-qualified. He went to Boly:Welch looking for legal or temp work of any kind, and the recruiting firm ended up hiring him to be an assistant to the firm's recruiters, a job that includes answering phones, getting lunches and occasionally walking the owner's two poodles. "I know I'm underemployed and if it bothered me more, I guess I'd do more to change it," he says."

From what I understand, Portland strongly favors applicants from regional law schools; therefore, it make sense that a lawyer from Austin would have a difficult time finding a positon. The quoted lawyer in the article sounded a little complacent with his job search, in any case...

[subsound]

Originally Posted by elizabethn2009

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124242099361525009.html

Stephen Anderson, 28, a lawyer who moved in June to Portland from Austin, says for now, he's happy being over-qualified. He went to Boly:Welch looking for legal or temp work of any kind, and the recruiting firm ended up hiring him to be an assistant to the firm's recruiters, a job that includes answering phones, getting lunches and occasionally walking the owner's two poodles. "I know I'm underemployed and if it bothered me more, I guess I'd do more to change it," he says."

Yeah, I think if I spent all that time, money, and stress to get a law degree and pass the bar I wouldn't be so happy finding work as a glorified personal assistant...

Maybe just a little while to relax after all that stress, but I think it would stress me out more.

[gorilazgomossad]

Originally Posted by subsound

Check each programs accreditation and rankings as well as positions while attending, higher ranking and better accreditation is the way to go. It can open more doors to be internationally accredited with good rankings. I know when I hit my masters, because I was in the program (was an MBA, so a little different) they scooped me up because they could get me at a lower cost at the start, and get more benefits as I trained and become more educated. Even though when I started and was looking for positions I really thought there wasn't a great deal available.

Hey there. I'm a little confused. You say I know when I "hit" my masters - does that mean when you got it or when you first started attending?
Do you mean that your employer paid for you to go to Business School? Why did they get you at a lower cost? And who is they? The employer or the school? Did you get a scholarship?

[gorilazgomossad]

Originally Posted by subsound

Yeah, I think if I spent all that time, money, and stress to get a law degree and pass the bar I wouldn't be so happy finding work as a glorified personal assistant...

Maybe just a little while to relax after all that stress, but I think it would stress me out more.

I would die. He is basically a paralegal! Less than a paralegal. Thats crazy. LegalTimes has reported on a lot of law grads having to do Document review, which is basically : Scan 500 documents a day for the word "Settlement". If the document has the word, click yes. If not, click no. Thats why I never plan to do Biglaw. Yikes. The costs seem to far outweight the benefits.