Leaving Portland: my thoughts on the city (crime, unemployment)
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Washington? I've always classified WA as being more expensive than OR for housing.
Given the sub-prime crash, we need to 'reset' our impression of housing markets. A lot of homes in the Pac NW have dropped back down to $100,000, and none of them are in Portland!
Umatilla, Hermiston and Woodburn is probably the most convenient access to cheap homes with yard/garage and near a freeway, but still a far drive from Portland.
To answer your Q: The larger supply and diversity of homes in WA allows buyers to find a few bargains (old fixer-uppers with yard). A lot of great locations all over Seattle/Tacoma misleads people to believe that most homes there are expensive, but if you dig around, you'll find the less desirable locations at a bargain within city limits. Its the pretty homes that visitors dearly WANT that are ridiculously expensive. The rest are still priced within reason and not much more than Portland. Seattle's 12-lane freeway proves it's not a secret. A lot of newcomers picked Seattle over Portland during most of the past decade.
To stay on point: I discuss home prices to emphasize the place and ability of a low-wage worker to 'succeed' in building their own livelihood, and Portland is not one of these places due to its ongoing popularity and artificially higher cost of living. Portland homes can still be found for less than $200,000 today, which means Tacoma, WA has crashed back down to $150,000 from its pre-recession $250,000. I visit Tacoma regularly. There's a bunch of old crappy homes near my old college selling around $75,000 right now! I drove by them, I even asked a neighbor. I was thinking 'OMG', they're junk, but if I was stuck delivering pizzas at $8.55/hour, driving a $500 Ford Topaz with a bad starter, I'd move to Tacoma, pay a $400 mortgage, and be a ski bum again! Dude.
If you a far left liberal, then Portland is your dream place to live! I've been to many cities around the USA and Portland has to be in the top 3 easily. I am not saying this is a good thing?
this past Saturday I was in Woodburn at the outlet mall. The sun was out in full force. The temps were 80ish. I haven't been more mserable since I left the gulf coast area. I ended up with a raging migraine and later that night ended up at the ER due to the migraine.
I had TOO much sunshine and humidity/heat while living on the gulf coast. Plus I found it to be an ugly,flat,swampland full of bible thumping,redneck hunter and fishermen. That is my feeling of the area.
Here in the PNW-I love,love,love the weather. I can deal with much less sunshine than we are having right now. This past winter when it snowed and snowed and snowed some more--I was delighted!
The people in this area are awesome. The scenery is splendid. The weather affords one to do all types of outside activities that are just not possible where I grew up. I still do have to avoid too much sun though, even here.
So, what's great to one person isn't a fit for another. If someone needs hot weather(and I do mean temps ranging from 90 degrees to 100+ from April through sometimes November), high humidity, sunshine sunshine sunshine-go south. South as in the deep south. But prepare yourself,if you go, for lots of thunderstorms,power outtages due to the storms,hurricanes,high power bills,southern baptist zealots, alligators,mosquitos,snakes,wasps,fire ants, dirty beaches and lots of beer chugging rednecks. And road rage like you wouldn't believe unless you see it. I'm sure it's due to the bad moods everyone stays in due to the constant heat.
Elan,
I could not agree with you More, it's like you are reading my mind, after moving back from Oregon everything has gone down hill. Now I am stuck in Redneckville, FL filled with 24/7 hot steam days, monster trucks, with people whose name is bubba, baptist churches every other house... I am miserable. Forget the beach, its not even pleasant when the water is 80 degrees in a 100 degree weather, plus there are no mountains or hills..nothing!!!!! The only form of entertainment for locals in to go to strip malls to Ross or to the movies.
Longing to move back to Portland, love the rain and the smell of forest, with mountain views, miss hiking, biking, kayaking, rock climbing, micro brews and most of all the culture.
After living in Portland for over a year, I'm bidding my farewell (for reasons I'll explain a bit further down). Since I have no ulterior motive to either encourage or discourage people from moving here, I thought I'd offer some honest reflections on the city for those who are considering relocating. Let me warn you in advance that I am in no way skilled at being brief, so this will probably be long. Really, really long. Like, super long.
1) THE GOOD.
First of all, I have to say that Portland is -- hands down -- one of the loveliest, most livable places I've ever called home. The city is rich in character: neat architecture, quirky and charming neighborhoods, beauty in both the core metro area and in the old residential streets that surround it. On a sunny day, the views of the mountains are spectacular (though having lived in other mountainous regions, I wouldn't call the mountains a defining feature of Portland). Beautiful skyline, beautiful nightscape, beautiful waterfront, and of course the frequent rain keeps the landscape lush and vibrant. As someone who really values the visual elements of the place I live, Portland has been been extremely pleasing in this regard. Not that I judge on looks alone.
I don't own a car -- both because I don't want to pay for one and because my driving skills rival that of an 80-year-old blind woman -- so the walkability of the city is a huge plus in my book. If my feet can't take me where I want to go, a bus can. (Though unfortunately, due to the economy, a lot of bus lines are being cut or altered right now -- including the one that goes right by my apartment, which just lost weekend service). And for anyone who hasn't visited Portland, the rumors of the bike-friendliness around here are absolutely true. So for my lifestyle, it's been pretty easy schmeasy to get around. And judging from the other people I know here who don't have cars (or do and just never use them), I know I'm not the only one impressed by how well the city caters to the car-less.
I also dig the emphasis on green friendliness around here. Tons of co-ops, people who bring their own bags to the grocery store, interest in recycling and organics, and so on... it definitely seems like a big chunk of the population is concerned with their environmental footprint, which I think is awesome.
And the safety! Oh, the safety. I'm a 22-year-old female who likes to wander around outside at night when I can't sleep. Not a great habit, maybe, but it hasn't gotten me in trouble here in Portland. Yeah, there are some shady pockets like in any big city, but for the most part I feel completely comfortable being alone, outside, in the dark, even late at night. Part of this is due to knowing what areas to avoid (having learned the hard way, for instance, that it's not a great idea to walk through China Town in the wee hours of the morn), but generally speaking the city just feels non-threatening and safe, which is a good thing indeed.
Also, there are many sushi places around. I like sushi. A lot. If you also like sushi, a lot, you will be very happy about this.
2) THE NEUTRAL.
Homeless people. Yes, they're here. Yes, there are a lot of them (especially along Burnside and Pioneer Square). Yes, they will probably ask you for money. Every night, I hear the cryptic rattle of shopping carts on the sidewalk, pushed by the bums who scour local dumpsters for food in the dark. It's sad, and while all major cities have some form of homeless population, I've noticed that Portland's homeless are somewhat more "visible" than in other places I've been. That is, the homeless here don't just hang out in the slums or ghettos -- they're outside Whole Foods, roaming residential streets, sleeping in public libraries, etc.
After walking through downtown on a near-daily basis getting to/from work, I've learned to tune them out for the most part -- though occasionally I do encounter someone who is quite aggressive or frightening. Incidentally, the scary homeless aren't the ones after your money; they're the ones who are either drugged-up or schizophrenic and start yelling at you because they think you shot their uncle back in 'Nam. There are really three types of homeless around here: the street kids who want money for weed, the aforementioned crazies, and the "regulars" (ones who are in the same spot day in and day out, whom become quite familiar after you pass them for the 80th time).
I put this in the "neutral" section because, for the most part, the homeless are harmless 'round here. But, they are certainly part of the city.
Also "neutral" but noteworthy are what I like to call Portland Characters. Depending on your own preferences, the Portland Characters could be either a pro or con; they're a little of both for me. This category encompasses the wide range of unconventional folks you'll see on the streets -- the drag-queens in all their fake-eyelashed glory; the hipsters and scenesters; the Elvis impersonators; the mile-long dreadlocks; etc. It sure makes people-watching entertaining, but when I see a group of youngsters huddled together in matching thick-rimmed glasses, skinny jeans, sparkly ballet flats, and flannel shirts, I'm reminded that many folks here are more concerned with upholding their "image" than with pursuing more worthwhile goals (more on this later).
Thirdly: "THE BEACH IS JUST AN HOUR AND A HALF AWAY!" True that. I think the Oregon Coast is spectacularly beautiful, so I almost put this in the "good" category. Great place for photography and watching the sunset, that's for sure. Especially in the summer. However, for anyone coming from California or Florida or other warm, sandy-beach areas, keep in mind that the Oregon coastline is a fickle, windy, rocky, chilly place -- at least, it has been every time I've visited. Not always great for bare feet, and if you were born without body heat like I was, then you might be disappointed when you have to bundle up in sweaters instead of basking in the beachy sun. Let me emphasize, though, that it IS gorgeous... even if you only get to see it from the car window 'cause it's too doggone cold to get out.
Another thing I've noticed, both good and bad, is the "Portland Pride" attitude. People here are enormously proud of the city. They're proud of the eco-consciousness, they're proud of the beer, they're proud of the coffee shops, they're proud of the bookstores, they're proud of the mass transit, and they're proud of their proudness. In a lot of ways, this is a great thing -- much better than constantly ragging on your own hometown and complaining about how much it sucks. However, while it's nice so many people like it here, there is also this implicit sense that you're not allowed to say anything bad about the city. On more than one occasion, I've pointed out a gentle criticism of the city to a native, only to get the evil eye or a quick change of subject. Once, I was waiting at a bus stop with a lifelong Portlander who insisted Portland was the best city in the nation -- a claim he made despite having never, in his life, been outside of Oregon. Sometimes I feel that the hush-hush attitude about Portland's problems has led people to move here with unrealistic expectations about the city. A lot of folks seem to come here thinking Portland will "do" something for them, give something to them, that other cities can't. Yes, there are many positives to the Land of Port, but moving here won't magically help a person make something of their life just by virtue of them living here.
And last but not least, I'd like to comment on the general friendliness of Portland's population. This is an impossible thing to sum up and I don't like to generalize, but I will say that, by and large, folks here are amazingly polite and considerate. Smiles on the street, "hello's" to strangers, cars pausing (sometimes unnecessarily) for pedestrians -- it's all here. There is definitely NOT an "every man for himself" attitude; people look out for each other. However, the politeness and social conscience isn't the same as friendliness. I have found that social groups tend to be pretty insular; for whatever reason, people aren't too gung-ho about making new friends or letting other people into their cliques. I have heard this from many people who move here and have also experienced it myself.
3. THE UGLY.
The weather. Yes, I'm going to beat this dead horse one more time. I realize that some people truly do love that damp, low-hanging cloud cover that envelopes the Pacific Northwest the majority of the year. And the climate does yield a simply dazzling summer -- in fact, I can't imagine a more spectacular place to be from June to August. (For anyone who hasn't experienced a northwest summer, it feels like eating a really delicious peach while lounging in a hammock in the sun... right after having learned you've won the lottery and never have to go to work again. Yeah, it's THAT good.) There can be a few unpleasant heat waves in Portland -- I remember a week last year when I was plastered to my apartment floor, wilted and sweaty, saved only by the fan -- but for the most part, the summers here will rock your socks.
So why is this in the "ugly" category? Because the non-summer months are a whole different beast. Let me emphasize that this is my opinion, and everyone will react differently to the weather here. As I mentioned, some people love it. In my case, I found late fall through early spring in Portland to be one of the most difficult, depressing experiences of my life. (Story time!)
I am, by nature, a very happy and optimistic person. When I first moved here, I didn't realize weather could have such a profound affect on mood, nor did I know much about Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) and how common it is around here. So when I suddenly became a mopey, unmotivated, despondent mess at the onset of Portland's gloomy months, I was baffled. I started getting sick a lot, previously having gone years without so much as a cold. My relationships suffered. My job suffered. It was a struggle to fall asleep at night and an even bigger struggle to lug myself out of bed in the morning; I NEVER had any energy. I didn't even know who I was anymore -- felt like a stranger to myself. A really grumpy unpleasant stranger, who never wanted to do anything ever.
It wasn't until December, when I flew to Arizona for the holidays, that I realized this was weather-related for me. My depression vanished after just one day in full sunlight. I felt completely back to normal. And then when I returned to Portland, so did my all-pervading sadness.
For those who might think I'm just a weather wimp, I will say this: prior to Portland, I attended college in a mountain town where the thermostat routinely slid below 0°F. I spent many mornings walking to school in sub-zero temperatures, unable to talk when I got to class because my face was literally frozen. There was wind like you wouldn't believe. The summers were filled with window-rattling thunderstorms. But, there were 300 days of sun per year. And I never had a lick of depression, even in various states of frost-bitten-ness.
I realize that there ARE occasional sunbreaks in Portland's winter; sometimes you can see a few veins of blue in the sky, and other times you can actually see shadows on the ground. But let's face it, this place is pretty darn grey for a large chunk of the year. One thing that's also overlooked is that, due to Portland's latitude, the length of daylight in the winter is significantly shorter than in areas closer to the equator. I don't feel the sunrise/sunset statistics give a good sense of this, either, because when it's cloudy it gets dark at least an hour before the official sunset. So, winters feature A) cloudy wet days in which B) you go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. For people like me who physically need sunlight to function normally, I think this is a serious issue to be considered -- particularly for those who have never lived this far north or who are from very sunny places. Don't assume it won't affect you.
Bottom line: the weather, for me, is such a huge obstacle for enjoying life in Portland that it's the prime factor in my choice to leave. I know there are alternatives like getting SAD lights, but I find the idea of sitting under a special lamp to alleviate depression to be depressing in itself -- I don't want to need artificial means to return to my natural, happy state.
Whew! On to the next point: the direction and ambition (or lack thereof) of Portlanders.
This one may be specific to the 20-something age group, as these are the people I most frequently interact with. While I have no problem with the whole "laid back" attitude Portland is known for, I'm kind of disturbed by the general lack of motivation I see among people my age. It seems a lot of them are perfectly content living in someone's basement, working a minimum-wage barista job, getting high all weekend, and spending their meager earnings on comic books, records, and funky retro thrift-store clothing. As someone who has a lot of ambition and wants to accomplish many things in life, I have trouble understanding how this kind of lifestyle would be fulfilling or beneficial to Portland's social and economic health. Maybe it's because I'm from a college town where the young folks were working towards degrees -- here, there just isn't as much interest in getting an education. Unless it's at art school, maybe. In Portland, my generation's emphasis seems to be more on conforming to noncomformity -- to embracing this image of rebellious uniqueness, which involves buying certain clothes, getting certain bodily regions pierced and tattooed, listening to obscure music, and generally following the rules of a rather superficial "alternative" sub-culture. I find this disappointing because the 20-somethings are flocking to Portland in hoards, perceiving it as some holy land for all things artsy and indie... and with the young-people influx comes stagnancy and a growing unemployment rate.
Speaking of unemployment rates: jobs in Portland. I did that unmentionable thing of moving here without a job, and I was lucky -- VERY lucky -- to find one shortly after getting here. However, most people aren't so fortunate. The job market here really is as bad as people say it is. I routinely apply for gigs posted on Craigslist in order to supplement my income, which is about 2/3rds of what it was in my previous town (for the exact same job). You'll find it again and again on this board, and heed the advice: don't move here if you don't have a job solidly lined up -- or, at the very least, a nice hunk of money in the bank that you don't mind using up. Competition is fierce. Employers get flooded with resumes from people who have been trying for months to get work. Even if your resume is a stunning masterpiece of skills and experience, don't assume you'll find something right away.
And with that, I'll end this novella. Hopefully some of these points will be helpful to someone, anyone, out there in the cyber-abyss.
I just want to say this so far the best post i ever read out of more than 50K since i jointed city data. Just curious where you moved to ?
I just want to say this so far the best post i ever read out of more than 50K since i jointed city data. Just curious where you moved to ?
On page 11 of this thread, post #108, the OP posted her new location and about her tragic bicycle - large-car accident. Her pain must have been unimaginable, and long slow physical therapy recovery. She has my utmost sympathies.
If you right click on her username, you can link to her public profile, and view when she was last logged onto City-Data.
I have lived in Portland for close to 4 years now, and it is bittersweet to me that I am now choosing to leave. There is so much I truly love about this area and the city of Portland, but none of it is enough to keep me here for another miserable winter =( I moved here from Chicago. The winters at first to me were a major upgrade; barely any snow, temperatures rarely dipping to a truly cold temperature like in the Windy City, etc. However, I have finally reached that point where the prospect of another Portland winter makes me want to get out a butcher's knife and end it all!!! LOL! The bottom line is that while summer's here truly are MAGICAL, they last for at most 3 months and the rest of the year is this dreary, dark blanket that you can't escape. The first two years of it I tolerated like a champ, but these last two have been ROUGH. I don't like the blah-ish person I become here in the winter! I don't mind the rain, mind you; it makes me feel much better about not blow-drying my hair daily (what's the point?). What I am referring to that is the deal-breaker for me is the incessant darkness that cloaks our lovely city for 9 months plus a year. For me the honeymoon phase has worn off! A few other things I am wondering if other's have experienced:
-The dating scene here is rather peculiar. As a fairly attractive 27 year old, I have been surprised to find how hard it is to score a date out here! Coming from the midwest, all you had to do to meet new boys was get cuted up with your girlfriends and go to a bar. Sometimes the guys were too forward and you had to be really blunt to get them to go the heck away, but I actually miss these interactions now! Who would have thought? There is a dynamic out here known as PPMS or Portland Passive Male Syndrome-gosh it is so true! While I love that men as a whole are more willing to see us as equals and treat us as such, I really miss being COURTED! I mean is it to much to ask to come up to me and ask me for my number or offer to buy me a drink? I feel like out here the simple act of courtship is virtually non-existent, and my girlfriends and co-workers all have echoed that sentiment. I truly love P-town, but I also don't intend to die alone
-the homeless situation is by no means a deal-breaker for me, but I do agree with the original post. My parents were shocked at how visible the homeless are here compared to chicago. Seeing them clustered on burnside and other unavoidable streets is difficult for me. I have never quite gotten used to seeing it. In some ways I appreciate that there is some tolerance for the homeless here (as opposed to Chicago, where there is very little tolerance at all for them)-everyone falls on bad times, and who am I to judge another person's struggle-but it still is hard to see every day.
I love this city and it hasn't been an easy decision for me, but a move is now imminent as far as I am concerned. I need sunlight and I need to be around some men with balls HUGS
I have lived in Portland for close to 4 years now, and it is bittersweet to me that I am now choosing to leave. There is so much I truly love about this area and the city of Portland, but none of it is enough to keep me here for another miserable winter =( I moved here from Chicago. The winters at first to me were a major upgrade; barely any snow, temperatures rarely dipping to a truly cold temperature like in the Windy City, etc. However, I have finally reached that point where the prospect of another Portland winter makes me want to get out a butcher's knife and end it all!!! LOL! The bottom line is that while summer's here truly are MAGICAL, they last for at most 3 months and the rest of the year is this dreary, dark blanket that you can't escape. The first two years of it I tolerated like a champ, but these last two have been ROUGH. I don't like the blah-ish person I become here in the winter! I don't mind the rain, mind you; it makes me feel much better about not blow-drying my hair daily (what's the point?). What I am referring to that is the deal-breaker for me is the incessant darkness that cloaks our lovely city for 9 months plus a year. For me the honeymoon phase has worn off! A few other things I am wondering if other's have experienced:
-The dating scene here is rather peculiar. As a fairly attractive 27 year old, I have been surprised to find how hard it is to score a date out here! Coming from the midwest, all you had to do to meet new boys was get cuted up with your girlfriends and go to a bar. Sometimes the guys were too forward and you had to be really blunt to get them to go the heck away, but I actually miss these interactions now! Who would have thought? There is a dynamic out here known as PPMS or Portland Passive Male Syndrome-gosh it is so true! While I love that men as a whole are more willing to see us as equals and treat us as such, I really miss being COURTED! I mean is it to much to ask to come up to me and ask me for my number or offer to buy me a drink? I feel like out here the simple act of courtship is virtually non-existent, and my girlfriends and co-workers all have echoed that sentiment. I truly love P-town, but I also don't intend to die alone
-the homeless situation is by no means a deal-breaker for me, but I do agree with the original post. My parents were shocked at how visible the homeless are here compared to chicago. Seeing them clustered on burnside and other unavoidable streets is difficult for me. I have never quite gotten used to seeing it. In some ways I appreciate that there is some tolerance for the homeless here (as opposed to Chicago, where there is very little tolerance at all for them)-everyone falls on bad times, and who am I to judge another person's struggle-but it still is hard to see every day.
I love this city and it hasn't been an easy decision for me, but a move is now imminent as far as I am concerned. I need sunlight and I need to be around some men with balls HUGS
Best of luck to you, I hear exactly what you are saying. Especially the part about meeting men here. Portland can be a difficult place in which to date. The weather? Well your description is a perfect example of why it seems like long-time residents are always "complaining" (they aren't really) about the weather when in fact we try to tell people it can get very depressing with such a loong stretch of gloom, rain, wet, etc.
I wouldn't mind it so much if Portland didn't embrace the homeless population like it does but the city also loves to help "everybody" it seems.
Best of luck to you, I hear exactly what you are saying. Especially the part about meeting men here. Portland can be a difficult place in which to date.
Especially from the guy's point of view. There are a LOT of flaky women here, or feminists, or lesbians, or grossly overweight, or depressed, or just plain lazy, or militant vegans, or high as a kite, or extremely clingy after a first date. In many cases a combination of these traits. When I was single I wouldn't have a date for months at a time, then suddenly have three or four in the same week, all of which never panned out.
But it goes the other way too. Guys are just as bad in PDX, many are gun shy because of the sheer craziness and give up on dating all together. A few have turned gay just so they could find dates as it seems only homosexual guys really have an easy time of dating here.
This translates across other sectors unfortunately. When I was self employed, I would frequently have 50% or more of my clients not show up. When booking models for photo shoots, there is a 75% no-show rate. It's gotten to the point that you book twice as many models as you need, and hope a quarter of them show up. I've had visiting photographer friends come from places like LA or New York, expect to by booked solid while they're here, but end up with only one or two shoots total.
I know of several author friends who tend to avoid the Pacific Northwest because of the low attendance on book tours. Or if they do come up here, they make it a working vacation.
Especially from the guy's point of view. There are a LOT of flaky women here, or feminists, or lesbians, or grossly overweight, or depressed, or just plain lazy, or militant vegans, or high as a kite, or extremely clingy after a first date. In many cases a combination of these traits. When I was single I wouldn't have a date for months at a time, then suddenly have three or four in the same week, all of which never panned out.
But it goes the other way too. Guys are just as bad in PDX, many are gun shy because of the sheer craziness and give up on dating all together. A few have turned gay just so they could find dates as it seems only homosexual guys really have an easy time of dating here.
This translates across other sectors unfortunately. When I was self employed, I would frequently have 50% or more of my clients not show up. When booking models for photo shoots, there is a 75% no-show rate. It's gotten to the point that you book twice as many models as you need, and hope a quarter of them show up. I've had visiting photographer friends come from places like LA or New York, expect to by booked solid while they're here, but end up with only one or two shoots total.
I know of several author friends who tend to avoid the Pacific Northwest because of the low attendance on book tours. Or if they do come up here, they make it a working vacation.
A few have turned gay just so they could find dates as it seems only homosexual guys really have an easy time of dating here..
I have never in my life heard of a guy deciding to "turn gay" to get a date!
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