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It's more of a ... they get up in the morning and get dressed, thinking "How will I be most comfortable," and go out. As opposed to getting up in the morning and thinking to themselves, "Hmmm. How can I make myself more attractive so that judgmental dude at the mall will think I'm hot."
Enrico, love it! Yes, it sounds like many Portland women are acting like, um, MEN.
In Portland, a pretty girl who is ~15 lbs. overweight is considered above average and not easy to get - that's the problem. I agree looks aren't everything but it is definitely a big part of the equation. When ok looking girls seem out reach, that's an issue.
Many women in Portland seem to me to fall into 3 categories:
1. Cool, but very overweight
2. Cool, but very unattractive face
3. Attractive, but Paris-Hilton wannabe attitude
The other ones, even the decent (but nowhere near perfect) looking cool ones, are usually taken.
BTW, I'm married so not a personal complaint, but this reflects the senitments of many guys I knew there.
This is a solid post and quite true. I wanted to post an update after having lived in PDX for a year and a half now. I have dated a lot of women and have come to realize that the best bet in Portland is to chat up the 6's and focus on yourself instead of women. Having a good job, my own place, my own business, exercising, eating well and developing my own life has been much more attractive to women than sulking because there aren't diverse stunning women all over this town. This strategy has led me to date many cool and even marginally interesting women. I have accepted that most people in Portland are just average looking. There is nothing wrong with that, it is what it is. At least they are not all completely rough dbags. I am 39 now, so I am not as pretty as I once was anyway. I have found many of these women open minded and interested in learning more about me and life. Despite their "look" I find women here to be way more traditional and less emasculating as CA. They have been significantly less evil and manipulative than women in CA. I haven't met anyone that blew me away but I have a steady stream of interested women since I have stopped looking for the 8's and 9's. I'm having a good time and we treat each other well. There just aren't many of those 9's here and 99.99% of them are taken. Lets face it, those are illusory relationships anyway. Guys, if you can accept yourself as equal to the 6's, you'll get an occasional 7 and you will have several different women interested in you at all times.
I don't think it's that more are trying to not be attractive, I think it's that more are not trying to be attractive. Whatever attractive is (it varies for everyone). But a big difference.
It's more of a ... they get up in the morning and get dressed, thinking "How will I be most comfortable," and go out. As opposed to getting up in the morning and thinking to themselves, "Hmmm. How can I make myself more attractive so that judgmental dude at the mall will think I'm hot."
To me, I see it as they want the men to get to know, understand, and respect them for who they are. If should by chance that you're both compatible, she's the person you're going to spending the rest of your life with and not a big shock after extended dating period or marriage.
To the women, I agree with that but being comfortable doesn't mean you should be dressing a lot like a guy. I don't mean that you supposed to be wearing dresses or skirts either. You can still look feminine and cute/hot/sexy wearing jeans and tennis shoes nor should you feel compelled to wear thick make up or any makeup, I've seen it done before. Honestly, I find that I'm more attractive to women wearing very little or no makeup. Because when I look at her, I want to see her and not the mask, literally and figuratively.
But that goes for the men too. I've seen some go out of their way to look good - exercise to show off their muscle in somewhat tight clothing, shaving constantly, etc. - only to not be doing any of that after a while, especially after marriage. Doing that means you're not attracting other women and giving your woman the confidence that the chance of you cheating on her is unlikely. But that could also work against you when you find your significant other is cheating on you. Is it perhaps that she no longer finds you as attractive initially? Or could it be that she finally realizes that you're not the person whom she wants to be with because you're not true to yourself or perhaps that you no longer find her worthy of your effort of looking good for her...
In my first year in the city, I have to say that most of the women I have seen (outside of the Pearl, NW 23rd, and parts of downtown area) almost try to look unattractive. The line in the Dream of the 90's, "all the hot girls wear glasses (yeah)" is kind of true. In Portland more than any other place I have lived it almost seems like there is a good percentage of the population trying not to be attractive. (too be fair this is definitely the case for guys too). All the hipsters 80's gear isn't helping either. I'm not saying that girls have to be flaunting their stuff and done up all the time. But I have definitely seen a lot less decent looking girls here.
My wife even comments on this as well (as she worked at a higher end boutique on Hawthorne), so I'm not trying to be sexist or anything.
There is a different vibe in this town for many women.
And I have a beard and occasionally wear flannel (although it gets too warm here most of the year).
I see many women in Portland and think "Did they look in the mirror before they left the house". I visit Portland often, and am asked why I am so dressed up. Well I like to look nice...I can't help it.
If you are single and have never been married at age 35 you will always be a single. End of story. Sorry to be harsh but go ahead, find proof that I am wrong. As for the rest of it... physical attractiveness is so overrated. I don't mean physical fitness or physical health, I mean beauty. Let's admit it, what is keeping a lot of you singles from pulling the trigger for 'X' is this notion of above the neck 'beauty'. To a lesser extent it is also below the neck fitness. I am told that Oregon has fewer overweight people than most other states. Somehow in this thread I read the opposite. Forgive me if I think that some of you don't know what you are talking about. I come from NYC and there were head turning beauties left, right and center. I come out here and I still see quite attractive women all the time. All the time. Yah, I see plenty of muffin tops but I can't really say that the proportion of average to above average women is any different in PDX than NYC and that is saying a lot. I am also really surprised to see the amount of disloyalty from women who think they are above average have to their less well appointed sisters. They are doing you a favor don'tcha think?
If you are single and have never been married at age 35 you will always be a single. End of story. Sorry to be harsh but go ahead, find proof that I am wrong.
I'm not sure why "married" is the opposite of "single", but since there was yet another opportunity to "check the source" I figured I would. And that was the one that took 5 seconds to find, so I didn't data-mine their sources.
There are also many people fundamentally opposed to marriage for a variety of reasons. For starters, the flavor of religion that imbues a marriage event is unpleasant to some, especially for those of us with family that would have certain expectations, making things even more awkward, at least for those of us free of the shackles of religion. Some people are absolutely opposed to supporting the De Beers diamond monopoly of overpriced clear rocks that aren't actually as beautiful as many, many other gemstones. A modern wedding itself can end up costing an obscene amount of money, and even if you have found some perfect soulmate who is *not* bridezilla, what are the chances that her Mother is not??? Also, some of us are friends with Lawyers, and as such, don't want to increase the demand for Divorce attorneys.
Is it possible to have a lifelong committed relationship with a person without naming it marriage? Absolutely. I know plenty of living-in-sin pairs that have adult relationships that don't require legal, societal, or state approval. Honestly, they are doing it the smart way. Most of them, are either atheist or agnostics that I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
As for the rest of it... physical attractiveness is so overrated. I don't mean physical fitness or physical health, I mean beauty. Let's admit it, what is keeping a lot of you singles from pulling the trigger for 'X' is this notion of above the neck 'beauty'. To a lesser extent it is also below the neck fitness. I am told that Oregon has fewer overweight people than most other states. Somehow in this thread I read the opposite. Forgive me if I think that some of you don't know what you are talking about. I come from NYC and there were head turning beauties left, right and center. I come out here and I still see quite attractive women all the time. All the time. Yah, I see plenty of muffin tops but I can't really say that the proportion of average to above average women is any different in PDX than NYC and that is saying a lot. I am also really surprised to see the amount of disloyalty from women who think they are above average have to their less well appointed sisters. They are doing you a favor don'tcha think?
H
Physical attractiveness is overrated? Physical attractiveness is what guided our ancestors in choosing successful offspring. Manly featured men had higher testosterone, which in ancient times led to successful, healthy males. Feminine traits on women encouraged successful offspring as well, due to the woman having healthy ovaries and high estrogen levels. These two traits are visible to other humans because it caused successful offspring. Why does it seem that women grow less attractive with age than men? It's biological. Ovaries are made in the woman at birth. They do not get fresh eggs every 24 hours. Men on the other hand get sperm regeneration rapidly. Women who stay physically attractive longer are actually much more likely to mate later, and then have offspring that have increased chances of complications. In our current era, we can fix many medical problems, but one of aged ovaries is not one of them.
So, the following images, are things that I found that I could try and illustrate that "above the neck" physical attractiveness is relevant. You can sugar coat this whole, I don't care if someone is easy on the eyes BS, but it is ingrained genetically to seek out things that *you* find attractive. The top photo, was about as foul of an image I could find, followed by an image of arguably the hottest woman ever, Terri Farrell, and a definite contender for the title as well: Michelle Monaghan.
Biological facts aside, many people don't remain single purely because of beauty. Being a manly man with a manly face, I seem to have little problem with meeting women that I find attractive, actually meet plenty now that I don't live in the northwest. What keeps me single, is what women want to do most of the time, stupid movies, pop culture, pop music, going out dressed up to be seen, etc. I have little desire to spend free time doing things that I find irrelevant or boring. I absolutely do not want children. These facts make being single the preferential choice. Women want one night stands plenty often, more than most people realize, so I'm around for those, and for me, a fine reason to stay single.
When a man is not single, he tends to be less aware of the local women than a man who is single. That is natural, some men, when in a relationship, aren't looking for a mate, so aren't paying as much attention to the local potential single pool. The fact though, that you say that NYC and Portlandia have equivalent quality women is highly suspect. Since you haven't been single in Portland, why is there so much advice coming from you regarding a topic that you obviously can't even remotely have any expertise on?
Yeah, I'd have to agree. A married guy offering opinions on single women and dating is kind of like ... oh, a Chicagoan offering opinions about Portland.
I haven't offered any advice Isotope. I have simply observed that single adults find fault with their dating options. Forever. I haven't yet seen evidence that I am wrong. The world isn't either black and white. It isn't either fugly or beautiful. It isn't either dumb broad or intellectual giant. And with an average amount of searching I found a size 4 that looks like Julie Andrews I wasn't at all sure with what I had to work with that I would be able to pull such a miracle off every week so I married her. Granted, not in PDX but you haven't been able to do it anywhere. Not that you have to. In fact, it sounds like its for the best that you don't. Because of this thread I did some checking. Yesterday I counted wedding rings. Every woman I looked at had a wedding or engagement ring. I only counted those I had some interaction with at a store or the library, etc.
H
Last edited by Leisesturm; 11-19-2011 at 09:58 AM..
I haven't offered any advice Isotope. I have simply observed that single adults find fault with their dating options. Forever. I haven't yet seen evidence that I am wrong. The world isn't either black and white.
H
EVER? You've NEVER heard of someone over 35 getting married?
And you're exactly making the world into Black and White (ie "If people have not married by 35 they never will").
Nope Dave, I NEVER have . Hmmmm... come to think of it I really haven't, but relax, I was deliberately overstating my position to make a point.
H
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