I'm stunned by descriptions of Portland on here. Please clarify. (Bend: appointed, new house)
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The bear story is making me rethink a couple of things - first, whether blackberries are really all that important, and second, how under armed I am when I hike on this side of the mountains in what has become overpopulated cougar country (central, but almost the edge of eastern Oregon). I hike daily right from my back door when the weather permits, but consider myself at risk, because what I carry has to be light otherwise I can't hike very far with the weight. Given what has gone on here in the last few months, I just take dh and the dogs in the jeep to various places for short walks here/there, and don't hike for long distances (and no more running, which I used to do with my dog out there).
That is a great link, thanks. 300# is an unusually large cat. Last year, our rancher neighbors told us that they'd lost a calf and had a very injured momma in a pen right up by their home. They called us to make sure it was okay if their state paid hunter came through our land, should the cougar head that way. The guy brings a mule and a pack of dogs - I think this was through a program called APHIS (?); however, I also heard they were considering scaling it back due to budget concerns.
My dh has a cougar tag. We lost 2 calves this year to some sort of predator (couldn't be certain due to when we finally found them/weather, and condition - could even have been a coy-dog), but that is the first predator loss we've ever had in our herd. The male cat whose tracks dh saw at our gate (> a mile from the house) has left tracks & been seen by several neighbors (both alone, and once running with another cat past some road workers, unusual thing to see). Both of us have seen some over the past few years here; the last one was last year, in a tree on the bottom branches, near that same gate (he was in the truck waiting as I closed the gate behind us - that is too close). It is no longer a rare thing to spot one here. We've had an huge population of deer (even more elk) over the last so many years here, so it isn't starvation that is moving them in this close to the few people who live out here.
Right after I read your post/saw that link, a wood cutter on a neighbor's land called to say he thought our bull had wandered over there (over 3k acres - not a small search area). They are doing a "juniper restoration" project, which means cutting it all down to burn in place later, so the land is an awful mess. You can't take a horse or atv off the roads now because of the downed trees. We did spot him from a road a few miles in, and normally, I'd have trailed him by foot, but with those cat images fresh in my mind, I decided I wasn't in the mood to be cougar food
Hopefully our bull will make his way back on his own - we just had 2 days of Portland style rain, which has turned into 4" of snow overnight. Bet he is going to be hungry.
when you hike, do you carry anything at all? I'm just curious. I carry a beretta 96f centurion .40cal. at all times, especially out in the woods. I also carry the law enforcement magazine which holds 12 hollow point bullets, and I hope to never find out if thats enough to stop a big cat or bear. but those are heavy guns and not easy to carry on your side all day. I know s&w makes a small revolver that holds 5 bullets in I believe a .40cal. I know in a .38 for sure, and thats a lightweight gun and easy to pack. I don't take anything with me under .40 cal but a small .38 revolver is better than ski poles and a bag of granola.....lol. ski poles won't stop anything thats going to eat you.
the cat story in the tree is scary, from what I understand is that those cougars will wait in trees and drop on their prey without them knowing what hit them. cougars don't have to do that over here where there's a lot of underbrush where they can just sit and pounce on whatever walks by. and what bugs me the most, is that these dumb people will go hiking out in the woods with their little kids like the forest is a disney movie. I don't know if it's just because they don't know, or they don't care. but if they want to get eaten, then fine, they deserve what they get, but putting their kids in possible danger to go hiking is just dumb.
some people just need to stay in the city and go to the park instead.
Last edited by Barleysoda; 04-26-2010 at 04:54 AM..
Here's are the 2 issues I have seen in a couple days of browsing these forums:
1. People who come to Portland seem extremely disenchanted upon finally moving there, that it is WAY too liberal, that the people are not kind in any way, that the weather is very hard to get used to, and that they couldn't find a job to save their life.
2. Many Portlanders seem to have a "Don't let the door hit you on the way out" attitude. The immediate vibe I saw on here, post after post, is that they would LOVE for you to leave, and that you really weren't ever invited there in the first place, and no thanks for even trying to make it work.
My question: What is the deal? Is this town really as bad as it sounds? Are the residents really that unhappy to see you come, and awaiting the day to see you leave?
Yes to both of these comments but nothing is absolute. What I mean is you will find this attitude but not from everyone. My native Oregonian friends are definitely this. My transplant friends; not so much.
You have to seek your own level of living if you move here. Like any other city, you will find varying attitudes about newcomers, weather, socializing etc. People often post questions in generalities for which there is no definitive answer. It all depends on what floats your boat. And the only way to determine that is to take a chance and either visit for an extended period of time or just take the plunge and move here.
One thing I do believe is true is that you can't expect to be welcomed with opened arms by everyone. The job situation, over-crowding and economy in general is straining at the seams right now. I think many Portlanders see newcomers as nothing more than competition for the dwindling resources available here. That could account for the attitude you are seeing in some of the posts in the Portland forum.
when you hike, do you carry anything at all? I'm just curious.
I grew up in a rural area, complete with cats and bears, and both my places now have the same.
I always carry when hiking or if I am out fixing a fence, or looking for a cow, etc; problem is balancing weight and distance, & my advancing age Started out with my colt .45 auto (became heavier as I aged, lol, & might jam); then a .38 revolver clipped to the elastic band of my shorts (made 'em sag to my knees when I jogged); so then a S&W Airlite .38 special. That one goes anywhere and you don't notice you have it on, but I hate the kick. However, now that my knees have aged into senility (always giving out like they don't remember their purpose in life) and I don't run, dh thinks I should try taking his colt .45 revolver to see about the weight while hiking. If I am on horseback, the weight doesn't matter as much as making sure it is on me, and not on the horse should we become unexpectedly separated (they are pretty quick to do an instinctive about face and flee, when they smell a cougar - it has happened a few times in one specific area, to the point that I don't ride there much, and never alone).
Dh carries either his .44 mag or rifle when he is out working, or when he comes with us on hikes (he is my latest personal defense backup device, lol). As we and the dogs are aging and incurring injuries over the last year, we tend to go out more frequently during the day, but over lesser distances. So weight is less of a concern for me if I don't go as far.
In central oregon, I've seen/read about the city families who come to the NF/BLM for fun, and stop everyone's hearts by letting very little kids run through the cat, bear and snake infested areas. I don't understand it either. Just because someone wants their experience to make them feel like they are in a Disney movie doesn't make it any less Jurassic Park in reality.
I haven't noticed how people act in the recreation areas outside Portland, as I don't recreate there as much as I do over here (spent too many years outside in the rain, no more).
Last edited by sugarsugar; 04-29-2010 at 10:03 AM..
With all that gun toting, have you ever actually had a need?
Since I live in a predator rich environment, I have a need to manage that risk. There are many ways to stop a threat, and gun-toting is one of the many tools in my basket that I can choose to use. I have no irrational fear of useful tools. And, yes, fwiw, I have had "need" situations, here on the ranch esp, if my guess is correct re what you mean by need.
It is like any other risk management device - you assess your personal risk, and take the necessary precautions. You don't know in advance of need if the insurance device you carry will ever be necessary; maybe it will, maybe it won't be, but you rate risk on the probability of a future event occurring, based on a number of factors.
I've carried insurance on my homes, despite never having made a claim in over 30 years. I carry health insurance as well, despite never having needed it yet for a major claim in over 30 years. When I showed horses, I had extra coverage while my horses were out of my direct control and under the care and control of my trainer, and I can look back on it now that I am done with that, and say with certainty that I never needed it.
Without commenting on the necessity or the wisdom of it, governments also step in to manage risk for people who prefer not to dwell on such things. We have seat belt laws now, even for people who would prefer not to wear them or who have never been in an accident, or believe they never will be, or understand that in certain types of crashes, the seat belt will be what kills or injures them.
When dh flew in Alaska years ago, there was a state law requiring private pilots to carry a weapon while flying a private plane, even though the pilot may never experience a crash, nor feel that he/she will ever find anything more threatening on the ground than the crash he/she just lived through.
I feel it is my own responsibility to figure out this kind of thing, and take the consequences. Some risks that others wouldn't take are things I am comfortable doing, and I take no precautions at all.
Last edited by sugarsugar; 04-30-2010 at 09:14 AM..
So, I guess the answer is no and you live in a "predator rich" environment. I conclude that the rest of us who only visit on rare occasions are probably quite safe.
So, I guess the answer is no and you live in a "predator rich" environment. I conclude that the rest of us who only visit on rare occasions are probably quite safe.
Quote:
And, yes, fwiw, I have had "need" situations, here on the ranch esp, if my guess is correct re what you mean by need.
If my quote above from the last post means "no" to you, there is probably not much I can do to straighten that out for you.
As far as the amount of risk that someone else decides is acceptable on "rare" occasions, well, that is for them to decide. The outcome to them is not something that affects me.
I know a person who only parachuted out of a plane once, and had felt no need to have his own personal knowledge of how to pack his chute or care if there was a secondary chute in the event of failure of the first one, or even to check the track record of the jump facility.
A generalized conclusion that can be reached is sometimes things will work out in a person's favor, and other times they might go splat all over everything. It is up to the individual involved to either rate his/her own odds, or to decide by default.
So, I guess the answer is no and you live in a "predator rich" environment. I conclude that the rest of us who only visit on rare occasions are probably quite safe.
more than likely you would be quite safe, but you might not either, it all depends. your not going to see a mt lion or bear on beacon rock, but you certainly could in other populated trails, like hamilton mt, especially ape canyon out by mt st helens, which are predator rich environments. like I mentioned earlier in a previous post, I was glad I had a gun when that bear was stalking us up table mt, even though I wasn't sure if what I had was enough to take it down if it charged us.
I carry my gun as a last resort, I might not need it, but I'll have it if I do. and pretending I'm safe out in predator rich country is just plain ignorant. but if people want to hike and not have something to protect themselves, (if not a gun then bear mace at the very least if they don't like guns) then that'll be their own fault for not being prepared if something does happen. Ranger stations have these little pamphlets they give out about what to do if confronted by a bear and a different one for mt lion confrontations. you might be able to get them where you get your yearly passes, I don't know. I got mine out in trout lake at the ranger station there. I'll try to find mine and post a picture of them.
here's a couple links I found on what do do during these confrontations.
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