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Of course there are African Americans living and working in Portland but... how many? Given Portland's size and the appallingly small number of blacks living here (less than 30,000, the unemployment rate for African American's should be zero. Instead it is 3x what it is for whites... ... given the percentage of the population that African Americans are, there should be 64 black CEO's of Fortune 500 sized companies. There are four. The institution I work for has one African American employee... me. There should be at least a half dozen or more. Not even the janitors are black. They are ALL hispanic. This is why black people leave Portland, leave Oregon. Level playing field? What level playing field?
H
I do not know about the leveling the playing field (that was Nell's comment). But it was lack of job opportunities pure and simple why my African American friends left. But I have to add that many of my white friends have relocated for the same reason.
Institutionalized racism and descrimination doesn't go away easily. I am not African American and I think it's condescending to tell a whole group of people that their experiences does not have validity. I suggest some posters go and live in other large cities in the U.S. that don't have the same nasty history of discrimination toward African Americans that Portland has. Three or four years later, please come back and then comment on this subject. Perspective is greatly needed.
Let me ask you this, what do you think Portland needs to do to be more open to African Americans without increasing the gang problems that are unfortunately associated with the population?
??? Firstly, as I have said before, I much prefer the way Portlanders relate to African Americans than the surrounding areas. Do you think this is why the black gangs stay there? Do you imagine it is because they sense the hostility and fear and loathing of those in the suburbs why they don't launch start-up chapters of the Crips in West Linn? Portlands overall gang problem is very manageable. Portland's black gang problem is ridiculously easy to fix. I mean, seriously... we are talking about fewer than 200 individuals. Maybe fewer than 100, I don't know I am no expert on gangs. I am 52 years old but even when I was 17 any attempt to be a gang initiate would have been deadly to the standing members. They would have all died laughing. Whatever Gang Task Force has jurisdiction in Portland is guilty of the same sort of goldbricking that plagues enforcement units worldwide. They don't want to do too good a job and put themselves out of a cushy relationship with the municipal budget director. I have to wonder out loud if meth production and consumption in the Portland Metro area is not of larger and more widespread impact than black gang violence. What do you suggest Portland do about the meth problem?
Let me ask you this, what do you think Portland needs to do to be more open to African Americans without increasing the gang problems that are unfortunately associated with the population?
Wow....just...wow. What a comment. I have to believe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here--it sounds like you are saying that if Portland became more attractive to black people the gang problem would increase. You do know that not all black people are gang members...
Wow....just...wow. What a comment. I have to believe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here--it sounds like you are saying that if Portland became more attractive to black people the gang problem would increase. You do know that not all black people are gang members...
I do realize that not all African Americans are gang members. But a higher proportion of African Americans, due to ongoing economic and social factors (such as glamorization via Rap Music and TV,) are gang members then other races. I have to assume that if Portland specifically targeted members of a certain race, we would attract people from all economic layers, not just the "desirable" high income, educated members.
Your comment (to me) seems to be part of the problem. If you do not acknowledge that areas of predominately marginalized minorities do not have increased crime rates (not just Portland but across the World,) you're glossing over the problem. But if is acknowledged, then you're racist.
We have many examples of crime statistics through out Portland's history. Entirebooks have been written about such. Twenty years ago, a Caucasian wouldn't have been seen on Alberta or Mississippi. Now days trying to find an African American on either street is a real life "Where's Waldo?" game. With the decrease in marginalized African American population in North Portland, there has been a drastic reduction in crime all across the board in those areas.
"Black" Clubs as far back as the 1920's were well known to Portland City Police as areas of increased trouble. Famous Jazz musicians would be harassed just for being African American, and frequently "escorted" out of town after their gig was done because they were "unknown" and potential troublemakers. More recently in the 1980s and 1990s, several Hip-Hop clubs in Portland were forced to close down because they had a huge number of problems - usually associated with Gangs. Yes, I'm sure that racism played it's part in these examples, but even accounting for that there were still double the number of issues as nearby clubs that didn't cater specifically to African-Americans.
You can not deny that if Portland's African American population drastically increased overnight, with no other changes economically or sociological, that crime would not increase in the Portland area.
Please note that I'm not blaming African American's for the problem, I'm well aware of the economic reasons for our current problems brought on by a combination of poor education and targeted racism that was manifested in economically. If you ever get out there, the APEX Museum (http://apexmuseum.org/web/ - broken link) in Atlanta seemed to shed some even handed light over the issue.
??? Firstly, as I have said before, I much prefer the way Portlanders relate to African Americans than the surrounding areas. Do you think this is why the black gangs stay there? Do you imagine it is because they sense the hostility and fear and loathing of those in the suburbs why they don't launch start-up chapters of the Crips in West Linn? Portlands overall gang problem is very manageable. Portland's black gang problem is ridiculously easy to fix. I mean, seriously... we are talking about fewer than 200 individuals. Maybe fewer than 100, I don't know I am no expert on gangs. I am 52 years old but even when I was 17 any attempt to be a gang initiate would have been deadly to the standing members. They would have all died laughing. Whatever Gang Task Force has jurisdiction in Portland is guilty of the same sort of goldbricking that plagues enforcement units worldwide. They don't want to do too good a job and put themselves out of a cushy relationship with the municipal budget director. I have to wonder out loud if meth production and consumption in the Portland Metro area is not of larger and more widespread impact than black gang violence. What do you suggest Portland do about the meth problem?
H
Thank you for the reply.
I believe that Black Gang members are here because this is where they live. Senior Gang members are here from LA to recruit for their gangs, to increase their membership and to take advantage of "business" opportunities in the Portland Area. Like any other job, the people at the bottom want to move into more senior positions. Frequently this means expanding the franchise into areas that it hadn't been in before, IE "making yourself a job."
On the meth side - the fix for that is easy. The City of Portland should legalize it then setup clinics where people can go get their fix. Make the meth in a clinical environment so that it's 100% pure, decrease the price so it's cheap and those who want it will be able to get it. Tie it in with voluntary addiction reduction programs and job programs and the problem will fix itself eventually. Let those who can't afford their fix to work it out in a voluntary way, such as the "Keep Portland Clean Program."
I agree with you that the Portland Police (and most police departments) do artificially inflate the number of gangs and the number of members. I've seen it first hand.
The gang problem is easy to fix, just not as cheap. Increase funding to schools that have the lowest 20% graduation rates to reduce class room sizes to under 30 students. Revamp the curriculum from "No child left behind" to "No child kept behind." Reintroduce after school and extracurricular activities. Increase college scholarship opportunities. Get the high school drop out rate as close to 0% as possible, and increase the graduation rate to 100%. For students that really do have learning problems or trouble with curriculum for whatever reason, send them to Charter or trade schools.
Introduce College Education programs to prison systems. Ample stats show that graduates of College Education programs in prisons have low repeat offender rates, in some cases as low as 0%!
While crime will never be reduced 100%, I believe that it can be drastically reduced to a much more manageable point.
You've got an issue with gangs. As far as I know, gang violence is between rival gangs or gang members. Tagging is unsightly but I have been to Portland, many times. Even in the hood there isn't the kind of tagging that was common on the East Coast in the 1970's. You badly need perspective on just how bad a gang problem Portland has and the allocation of resources that should be mobilized to deal with it.
There is zero evidence to suggest that there will ever be a serious attempt to legalize hard drugs in my or your lifetime. So, lets have a practical suggestion for dealing with the meth problem. The unemployment rate for African Americans aged 16 - 21 nationally is as close to 100% as is possible. African American unemployment does not change even fractionally if education is factored in. A college educated African American is just as likely to be unemployed as one without any education at all. If said African American is under 21 then unemployment is a given. You will have gangs until that changes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamellr
The gang problem is easy to fix, just not as cheap. Increase funding to schools that have the lowest 20% graduation rates to reduce class room sizes to under 30 students. Revamp the curriculum from "No child left behind" to "No child kept behind." Reintroduce after school and extracurricular activities. Increase college scholarship opportunities. Get the high school drop out rate as close to 0% as possible, and increase the graduation rate to 100%. For students that really do have learning problems or trouble with curriculum for whatever reason, send them to Charter or trade schools.
Introduce College Education programs to prison systems. Ample stats show that graduates of College Education programs in prisons have low repeat offender rates, in some cases as low as 0%!
While crime will never be reduced 100%, I believe that it can be drastically reduced to a much more manageable point.
I've spent more than enough time with these same questions. I ultimately want to settle in an area where I won't have to deal with overt or institutionalized racism. I came to the conclusion that (besides exceptions like the deep south and random places in the NE and rural areas) most cities are the same.
There will be instititionalized racism and overt racism where ever you go, and there will also be logical, rational people where ever you go. I think many people (regardless of race) may be under the impression that a friendly place will have people flocking to you and waiting for someone to add to their book clubs and dancing clubs. This is not the case anywhere you go.
Oh yeah, I'm a black male that grew up in Troutdale, OR. I moved there from Bremerton, WA when I was 12. I faced some overt racism, although I will never know if I faced institutional racism because, well, it's hidden. But I also have friends of different races, and no one hates me because I'm a good person.
I joined the military after high school, so I come back to visit, and everyone wants to see me. We go hangout in downtown Portland because everywhere else is empty and rural looking lol. I have not lived on my own as an adult in Oregon, but I would like to believe that an assimilated black person (let's face it, you have no chance of making it anywhere as a 'ghetto' black person in a social or job market, or your chances will be less) wouldn't have a problem.
You've got an issue with gangs. As far as I know, gang violence is between rival gangs or gang members. Tagging is unsightly but I have been to Portland, many times. Even in the hood there isn't the kind of tagging that was common on the East Coast in the 1970's. You badly need perspective on just how bad a gang problem Portland has and the allocation of resources that should be mobilized to deal with it.
There is zero evidence to suggest that there will ever be a serious attempt to legalize hard drugs in my or your lifetime. So, lets have a practical suggestion for dealing with the meth problem. The unemployment rate for African Americans aged 16 - 21 nationally is as close to 100% as is possible. African American unemployment does not change even fractionally if education is factored in. A college educated African American is just as likely to be unemployed as one without any education at all. If said African American is under 21 then unemployment is a given. You will have gangs until that changes.
Then what are your suggestions to fix both these problems?
I would also be curious to see what the employment rate of College Educated Blacks vs. Non-College Educated Blacks really is. My gut feeling (based merely on people I know,) is that it's significantly higher, not "100% unemployment" as you say, but if you have a link to stats that say otherwise I would be interested. Please keep in mind that I am interested in this issue, I believe that the poor (no matter their race,) should be given a leg up due to their economic situation so that they can help contribute to the economy to a greater degree, instead of being a burden on it.
I hear from companies like Intel "Oh, we'd like to hire more local workers instead of having to apply for H-1 Visas, but none have the skills." And then on the other side of the coin our Education System is in the dumpster due to repeated funding cut backs. I frequently feel that I'm the only person that sees the disconnect here, and realizes this is the reason why the US is falling behind as the World Leader.
My issue with gangs is that they're the most visible manifestation of poverty. As a poor kid growing up, one who was bullied and beaten for being smarter then others, I can see the attractiveness of joining a gang. Having people to help protect you against the bullies, and being able to pull in money to help out the family - all with little or no education is a near impossible lure for many to resist.
But I stand by my statement, crime rates in poverty stricken neighborhoods and neighborhoods surrounding them, are higher then average. This is proven again and again, one only has to look at crime maps to see this is true. Not murders specifically, but property crimes, domestic abuse calls, petty theft, graffiti, muggings, drug use, etc, etc. This is a poverty issue, not a racial issue. African Americans just happen to unfortunately be the most visible manifestation of poverty as they have been marginalized the most by society, and poor economic policy in politics.
If you solve poverty, you'll drastically decrease racism. The negative stereotypes of African Americans are "proven" right due to a part of the population that has no choice but to react in the manner that they do, simply to put food on the table. If the stereotypes did not exist, racism would gradually fade away and become a "can you believe people did that back in the day?" As an example, racism against Irish, Catholics, Germans, and Chinese used to be extremely common in Oregon. But when is the last time there was a newspaper article saying "Catholic Gang brutally murders Protestant Man?" When was the last time a person of German descent in the US had to say "No, no, I'm POLISH! I'm not a Nazi!"?
Last edited by hamellr; 08-10-2011 at 09:30 AM..
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