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Old 09-23-2010, 09:58 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 5,222,075 times
Reputation: 7012

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Methinks you have a lot of learning to do.
Well,let's see.

1) mother of 5

2) 3 c-sections, 2 vaginal births

3) I delivered #3 myself after 72 hours of induced labor. The doc was asleep.

4) I spent several years as an EMT

5) I'm also a grandmother

Pray tell, what are your credentials?
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 5,222,075 times
Reputation: 7012
Quote:
Originally Posted by neverthesame View Post
If these women feel so traumatized by the birth experience maybe they don't need to have babies anyway.

^^ EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?!
Ok,you're excused.

I stand by my opinion,as is my right.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:44 PM
 
13,410 posts, read 9,941,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
Ok,you're excused.

I stand by my opinion,as is my right.
Did you read her post? Her child didn't survive. Naturally she's traumatized. Now run along with your credentials, and enjoy your children.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:58 PM
 
Location: California
37,121 posts, read 42,189,292 times
Reputation: 34997
I read the story, heartbreaking. But not RAPE. It was a tramatic physical experience and possibly a malpractice case with emotional implications that no doubt color the entire experience. But we accept that things will go in and out of the vagina when giving birth. The fact that the mother didn't want that doesn't change the fact.

I too wonder what else there was to the story and, without hearing the Dr's side, can not judge him or his actions.

I'm sorry for your loss and experience neverthesame.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:02 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,300 times
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Coming from a mother of three and expecting one more, "birth-rape" is definitely not the right word to use. I work int he medical field and understand that some women have a lower tolerance for pain than others and most of the times if the doctor tells you that you have no other choice that's that. I HAVE HAD ALL THREE OF MY CHILDREN NATURAL, no medications of any kind! I felt that it was my right to passage of womanhood. During my last pregnancy my doctor had to stick her whole had into my vagina to pull my sons had from over his head. No I'm a tough cookie but that hurt and then after that stuck a 14in probe in me to break my water, that was worst. Now some women do similar things for pleasure, so what's crazy about a woman enduring them for a life of her child? I think these women who feel "birth raped" have major physiological issues. I'm mother's only child and she had to have an emergency C-Section with me because my cord was wrapped around my neck. She has said countless times that she wish she could have birthed me and some women don't even value what their experiencing whatever the pain level.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:05 PM
 
4,471 posts, read 9,832,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neverthesame View Post
infant mortality in hospitals is at about 30% versus 3% of homebirths.
So you are saying 3 out of every 10 babies born in a hospital die? I find that very hard to believe. The nation infant mortality rate is 6.7

Google - public data

Here is an article (from 2002 but it still serves its purpose) which states that the infant mortality rate nearly double in Washington State due to home births.

Infant mortality double in low-risk home births | OB/GYN News | Find Articles at BNET
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:11 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 5,222,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Did you read her post? Her child didn't survive. Naturally she's traumatized. Now run along with your credentials, and enjoy your children.
She's not the only one here that lost a child.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,099 posts, read 41,226,282 times
Reputation: 45088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
My midwife ruptured my membranes long before I was induced. She did that at least a week prior. It was the breaking of the water that led to the twelve hour time limit. Some hospitals/doctors/midwives will allow 24 hours and others 48. 48 hours in considered the limit. A good midwife or doctor will know to avoid vaginal exams once the water has broken because that greatly increases the risk of infection.

"Rupturing the membranes'" and "breaking the water" are the same thing. Perhaps the procedure done a week prior was "stripping the membranes." That involves pushing the membranes away from the cervix during an internal exam. It, too, will sometimes help stimulate the onset of labor by releasing chemicals that can cause contractions. There is no "limit" to the number of hours after the membranes rupture at which point a Cesarean should be done just because of the duration of rupture. Other factors have to be taken into consideration. The longer the membranes have been ruptured, the greater the risk of infection. After the membranes are ruptured, limiting exams is good. That does not mean stopping them altogether. There really is no alternative way to monitor the dilation of the cervix.

In a normal, low risk pregnancy like mine, there is nothing at all unusual about delivering 2 weeks before or 2 weeks after one's due date. My midwife had absolutely no reason at all to schedule an induction at 41 weeks. I could have safely waited another week. If she was concerned she should have done an NST.

I agree it's important to ask questions. I however did not educate myself enough about the birth proccess and since this was my first child and first experience with pregnancy and birth I didn't always know what questions to ask. I trusted my midwife as the professional. I should have done more research on my end. That was my mistake. Hindsight is 20/20. It took time for me to reflect on my experience and educate myself more on pregnancy and birth and by that time I never saw my midwife again so there was no opportunity or reason to bring it up. I do know that what I went through is not uncommon. I learned from my experience and have since done a lot of reading on the topic. The choices and decisions regarding prenatal care and birth that I would make today are very different from what I chose with my dd. Live and learn.
There is evidence to support your midwife's management, which she would have discussed with her supervising obstetrician, by the way. At 41 weeks, you were no longer "low risk."

* Stillbirths actually increase after 38 weeks, and the number of stillbirths at 42 weeks is about twice the number at 40 weeks. The number is small, but there is no heartbreak like that of a patient who comes in at 42 weeks with no fetal movement.
* After 40 weeks, the risk of meconium (stool) in the amniotic fluid increases. The baby can inhale this material and get pneumonia.
* More low Apgar scores.
* Increased risk of a large baby, which increase the risk of birth injury, such as from having the shoulders get stuck after the head delivers. Also increases the risk of prolonged labor and Cesarean section.
* One baby in 5 who is delivered after 42 weeks will have postmaturity syndrome: due to placental insufficiency, the baby stops growing. The amount of amniotic fluid decreases, the risk of pressure on the cord and abnormal fetal heart rate patterns increases. The newborn can have blood sugar problems, seizures, and respiratory insufficiency.
* Post term pregnancy is an independent risk factor for neonatal brain dysfunction (encephalopathy) and death in the first year of life.
* Delivery on or after 42 weeks increases the risk of cerebral palsy.

Articles are difficult for me to get to. They require money or subscriptions, but here is one large study:Elsevier .

Their conclusion: Infants born beyond 41w0d of gestation experience greater neonatal mortality relative to term infants born between 38w0d and 40w6d.

Yes, monitoring for another week could have been an option. However, if your cervix was "ripe", there was a definite potential benefit to going straight to delivery. In fact, 3 women out of 4 would do another induction in the same situation.

You seem to be unhappy with your experience because you believe you"almost" had to have a Cesarean based on a misinterpretation of the significance of the length of time the membranes were ruptured. It seems to me that you are berating a midwife who made recommendations based on good clinical practice. The goal is to get ahead of the potential complications before they have a chance to happen.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,099 posts, read 41,226,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neverthesame View Post
I have only read to page 7, so I apologize if we have moved on to another discussion. But I wanted to share my story. So far no one has related a birth rape experience, so maybe some of you will feel differently after hearing one.
I went into labor very unexpectedly, and early. When I got to the hospital I was put on a contraction monitor and a monitor for the baby's heartbeat. I told my doctor I did not want any vaginal checks at all. I had done an extensive amount of research, and even in my situation there is no benefit to vaginal checks and they increase the risk of infection tremendously.

Had you seen this doctor before you went into labor? Did he know about your prior rape? How "early" was the labor? Your research left you misinformed about vaginal checks. There is really no way to know how the labor is progressing without doing them.
Did you attend any Lamaze classes? It appears to me that you were quite unprepared for what labor would be like.


A couple of hours later, my doctor told me that he needed to check me to see how far I had progressed. I asked why. He said he needed to know. I told him no. The baby was fine, I was fine. He told me that if I did not let him do a vaginal exam I would be endagering my baby and I was a horrible mother for preventing care of my baby. I still told him no. He told me that he was the doctor, not me. And if I did not let him check me that he would not know if my baby was in distress, and my baby would die inside me and nobody would know. Of course that terrified me, but I asked him what the heartrate monitor was for if not to check the baby's heartrate. He said there was no way to tell if what they were getting was me or the baby, and I was endangering my child.
After several dirty looks from the nurses and mumbled comments about how I didn't care about my baby enough to make sure she was safe; I let him check me. It was painful, but not horrible. He said everything was fine and he would be back to check me in a couple of hours. I protested but he either ignored me or didn't hear me on his way out of the room. 4 hours later I was resting and woke up to him checking me. I asked him to let me know before he came to check me so I was prepared. He said, "I'm doing this to save your baby's life. You need to just let me do what I need to do."
Several hours later, I wasn't progressing as fast as he would have liked. The doctor sat on one side of me and explained why I needed to be induced. That my baby was going to die if she didn't come out very soon. I asked if her heartrate was going down or up; if she was okay at the moment. He said yes, but that wasn't going to last long, I had been in labor for too long. While he was saying that, the nurse put pitocin in my IV.
An hour later when I was having unbearable contractions, the doctor stuck his hand inside me to manual dilate me despite my protests.

It is not really possible to "manual dilate" the cervix. If there is just a little lip of cervix blocking the baby, then it might be possible to slide it over the baby's head, but not to really "dilate" the cervix.

When I tried to sit up and close my legs, he had the nurses hold me down and hold my legs open. I was begging him to stop, that I didn't want it, that I knew it was necessary. I was ignored.

He said that he could see her head, and grabbed the forceps. I screamed at him to not come near me with those things. That I didn't want him to use those on me. He ignored me shoved them in me anyway. After he pulled them out, he put a speculum in me to dilate me some more, and tried the forceps again.

I cannot envision putting in a speculum. The baby's head is there --- no room for a speculum.

I was screaming, crying, begging for him to stop. Begging for them to let me leave. None of the nurses looked me in the eye, and the doctor told me to shut up. I lost a lot of blood and my baby died. It was not from complications from birth, and she would have passed away if I had a planned c-section the day before.
When I complained about my treatment I was told tht my baby died because I refused treatment, and that when my doctor tried to step in and save my baby's life it was already too late. My birth was traumatic terrifying. I was raped prior to my pregnancy, and the feelings were the same.

I am so sorry for the loss of your little girl. I know it is very painful for you to remember these events. Would you be willing to share with us what her problem was?


I don't understand why just because I was in labor it means that I'm just trying to get attention. It was violent and most certianly not self victimization. A man shoved his hands and instruments inside my vagina without my consent while I screamed for him to stop and was held down because I was protesting too much. What does that sound like to you???

It very much sounds to me as if your reaction to your birth experience was very much colored by post-traumatic stress related to your assault. Your reaction to exams made it very difficult for the doctor to take care of you, and he let his frustration show, because your behavior seemed irrational to him. I am NOT blaming you, but that is likely the way he felt. Did you consider looking for a female midwife or obstetrician?

My doctor finally lost his license for malprctice and mistreatment of a patient, but served no jail time.
If you have not already done so, I would strongly suggest counseling to help you deal
with the post traumatic stress before you get pregnant again. Most rape victims have PTSD to some degree, and a person trained to deal with it can really help. Otherwise, you may find yourself repeating the scenario you had with the first labor.

Although you had a truly horrible experience, I still cannot call it rape. The intent was to deliver the baby, not to assault you.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 7,191,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neverthesame View Post
infant mortality in hospitals is at about 30% versus 3% of homebirths.
If you're going to make claims like that you should plan to back them up, preferably without copyright infringement.
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