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Old 11-05-2017, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,821 posts, read 39,399,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COCUE View Post

There's a whole spectrum of genetic/ other issues that may be detected prenatally. Some of them are common like Down's and can have a fairly normal life and others less so. Some are incompatible with life even. Some of them are fatal and the children suffer a lot for the short time that they are here. I dare say that only parents who are having to make these decisions can imagine what they are feeling like.
Yep. Among the chromosomal abnormalities we tested for via NIPT was Trisomy 18, Edwards syndrome. We chose to find out even though we knew we would likely not choose to terminate except if medically necessary. T-18 babies generally live anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of weeks. Our position was that if that was the reality, we wanted to know, to proceed with all the knowledge possible to prepare for such a loss in whatever way we could, whatever we chose.

Quote:
To PP that suggested early detected chromosomes abnormalities self correct. That is very very incorrect. Mistakes in testing may be made and correctly tested a 2nd time but who we are at a cellular level doesn't just change.
To be fair, though, the poster you are referencing actually didn't claim that chromosomal abnormalities are self-correcting.

Just that "some abnormalities detected that early will correct themselves." Which isn't untrue. When ultrasounds, for instance, show defects like holes and thin spots in the walls of the heart, and certain issues with other organs, early on, these issues can and do often self-correct as development continues. Abnormal chromosomal makeup doesn't self-correct, but there are absolutely potential congenital defects that may. And the OP doesn't appear to be solely about genetic conditions, but "irregularities," overall. Which may or may not be at the chromosomal level.

To the OP, there are many, many ways you may not get what you bargained for when having a child. Genetic conditions and congenital abnormalities are only two examples of possible curveballs. You can have a child who screens normally prenatally, and is born with a physiological issue. Or one who is fine art birth and develops an illness or condition further down the road. You may have a child with a neurological disorder, behavioral disorder, developmental delay that can't be screened for. You may have a child in perfect health who suffers traumatic brain injury and becomes severely disabled. Or some other type of injury. There are no guarantees of the perfect child with no illness, disability, condition, etc.

If your wife is very much of the mindset that she cannot see herself raising a child with...irregularities, as you put it, it is probably worthwhile to do some soul-searching on whether becoming a parent is the best route. Because there certainly are no guarantees.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,772 posts, read 1,217,970 times
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First off, thanks for some wonderful replies. I would be very much in the camp of you raise the kids you get and discover what you love camp, as opposed to you create the kid you'll love camp.

I know it can't be the same, but I'm a guy that never returns things I buy. I take my time and try to make the right choice, but even if that choice doesn't turn out, unless it's a true manufacturing defect, I don't return things. My wife's purchases are like a try-out period, with half of whatever she buys being returned.

It scares me. I'm a stepfather, and have become the trusted adult, but there's limitations to that role. Mom likes to dress her up my stepdaughter in the nicest things and would love nothing more than to have her in a million actives to parade her around as amazing. In her true teen self she's thrown it all off, and wears some truly hideous crap. It's ok though. At the end of the day we're still good...and we get through the angst. Even if she'll never show it, I love hearing her laughing with friends. Bio dad merely used her as pawn to try to gain control over mom. With that gone, he's now totally out of the picture. Mom has me handle stuff, and comes in for the direct orders when I'm getting nothing but Kool-Aid.

I just want a normal family full of completely flawed people. I'll need her committed to parenting...and if she doesn't commit, life becomes problematic fast. I'd love to be a biological father, but only if I'm bringing someone into a family. The rest doesn't matter. I guess I've thought this through and found our difference to work through. Perfect family of flawed people vs Perfect people in a flawed family.

Thanks for the thoughts. Now, I gotta pick how to have this discussion....I don't want to convince, but rather get a true feel of what it will look like so we can decide together.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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There are no perfect people, and you can't control all outcomes.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,330 posts, read 12,584,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
My wife and I have had a debate. Ultimately she is the decision maker on this and has let me know it, but the conversation has left me very indifferent to having children. We'd be older, call it (37-43), and as the age rises, risks increase. So here's the equation:

If we get pregnant, and the baby has a deficiency detected, my wife wants to abort the baby and try again.

Originally I'd been open to another child. She'd like one, but she wants to make sure it's a good one. The analytics involved have truly cooled me off to the idea. I mean, of course we all would like a healthy baby that has the full advantages of our gene pool and none of the disadvantages. I think I'm more in for a child of any stripes and find the idea of aborting until the right alignment is found impossibly horrid.

I'm not an anti-abortion person. I'd support her, but I can't help but feeling like...nah, maybe we can do something else instead. A lot of the excitement just got amazingly doused to where I'm not even sure i want to try. I work late during peak cycle times. I know I'll have to talk to her, and I will but wanted to get some thoughts.

Anyway, I'm sure we're not the only couple that's talked about this. What decisions have you guys come up with?
Unless you plan to take on the role of mother/primary care giver, you should accept your wife's decision graciously.

I have a feeling your wife's role in caring for a special needs child would greatly outweigh yours.....you should respect that and her decision.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Castle Rock, CO
193 posts, read 114,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
If we get pregnant, and the baby has a deficiency detected, my wife wants to abort the baby and try again.
What exactly is a "deficiency"? That seems like such a broad term. Many of the "deficiencies" (mostly non-chromosomal, of course) that might be detected during pregnancy end up ironing themselves out or being fixable/ treatable after birth.

Even with chromosomal "deficiencies," many of the tests out there only look for markers and give you an idea of likelihood that your child will have them... not a certain diagnosis. There are plenty of stories where people were told that they would have a baby with a specific syndrome, but ended up having perfectly healthy babies.

Regardless - it's something that the TWO of you really need to agree on. I don't see how she can "ultimately be the decision maker." It's 1/2 your baby too! I could never fathom pushing a decision one way or another on something like this without being fully aligned with my husband, regardless of whether I happen to be the one carrying the baby.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,821 posts, read 39,399,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyupgrl View Post
What exactly is a "deficiency"? That seems like such a broad term. Many of the "deficiencies" (mostly non-chromosomal, of course) that might be detected during pregnancy end up ironing themselves out or being fixable/ treatable after birth.
I assume it's being used as a stand-in for "defect" or "abnormality."

Quote:
Even with chromosomal "deficiencies," many of the tests out there only look for markers and give you an idea of likelihood that your child will have them... not a certain diagnosis. There are plenty of stories where people were told that they would have a baby with a specific syndrome, but ended up having perfectly healthy babies.

In most cases in current generic counseling (and anatomical screening, really), you are given statistical information to make informed decisions, and indications of what is a soft marker for a particular condition, versus a clear chromosomal reading, etc. It was very well-communicated, in my experiences, that many of the preliminary tests were predictive, and not diagnostic.


Quote:
Regardless - it's something that the TWO of you really need to agree on. I don't see how she can "ultimately be the decision maker." It's 1/2 your baby too! I could never fathom pushing a decision one way or another on something like this without being fully aligned with my husband, regardless of whether I happen to be the one carrying the baby.
I agree that, if you're jointly parenting, collaborative decisionmaking is key. Ultimately, things affecting a woman's body will come down to her call, in terms of things like physical risk, but it seems unlikely that, in a healthy relationship, a partner is going to press for something that endangers his partner's health (and if he does, the relation ship is likely pretty problematic already).

Honestly, If you're with somebody, and you're not approaching a pregnancy as a team, that is probably an indication that something not 100% a-ok, big picture, in your relationship.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,007 posts, read 5,301,694 times
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I see a high risk to any potential child by the very existence of this thread. Any more comments would likely get me banned.
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Old 11-18-2017, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,330 posts, read 12,584,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyupgrl View Post
What exactly is a "deficiency"? That seems like such a broad term. Many of the "deficiencies" (mostly non-chromosomal, of course) that might be detected during pregnancy end up ironing themselves out or being fixable/ treatable after birth.

Even with chromosomal "deficiencies," many of the tests out there only look for markers and give you an idea of likelihood that your child will have them... not a certain diagnosis. There are plenty of stories where people were told that they would have a baby with a specific syndrome, but ended up having perfectly healthy babies.

Regardless - it's something that the TWO of you really need to agree on. I don't see how she can "ultimately be the decision maker." It's 1/2 your baby too! I could never fathom pushing a decision one way or another on something like this without being fully aligned with my husband, regardless of whether I happen to be the one carrying the baby.
Yes, it's 1/2 his baby too, but the vast majority of the time it is the woman who does the lion's share of the care giving while the man goes off to work.

In fact, many times the stress of caring for a special needs child breaks up a marriage and the woman is left to care for the child on her own while the man only has to pay child support. He goes on to marry again and live a normal life while mom is left to care for a special needs child, many times until the day she dies. Any chance of a normal life is over for her. Good luck finding another husband when every spare minute of your life is spent caring for a special needs child.

That is why the woman should be the one who decides what kind of risk she is willing to take and it is very selfish of the man to hold her decision not to take that risk against her.

If the tables were turned I doubt the OP would be so cavalier about throwing caution to the wind.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:04 PM
 
232 posts, read 102,100 times
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Hmmmm...I can understand your feelings. With our first pregnancy I had an odd blood test come back saying there was a high chance of Down Syndrome even though I was well under the age of a "geriatric pregnancy" as I jokingly referred to the way of making women who aren't old feel like they are. This distressed me but we knew that we wanted OUR baby no matter how he came. He was born without any abnormalities at all. Our second pregnancy every thing looked fine and yet our daughter was born with some mild birth defects that were not detected by ultrasound. I can't imagine not having either of them, especially since many of the tests have a high level of inaccuracy.

That being said, when you go to have a child, you have one because you want one, and you basically don't ever fully know what you are going to get. But it is YOUR child. If you both aren't on the same page then I would really explore why she is do afraid of not having a perfect child. Does she think it would reflect badly on her? No one is perfect, and there is no perfect kid, despite the fantasies. Your beautiful and healthy child could have autism, or cerebral palsy at birth, or grow up to be a sociopath, there are no garuntees in parenting, much like in life. It's best not to risk it if you both aren't at peace with the fact that you aren't in total control. I can promise you that parenting is one of the most rewarding but also most difficult undertakings on earth. The full human experience is fraught with all kinds of uncertainty and things can change in an instant. I would say that one is not truly emotionally prepared to become a parent unless they can try and accept this. Good luck to you and your wife - it's not an easy decision by any means and I feel for you.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:30 PM
 
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It really depends on one kind of issue you're dealing with. We found out that due to her jewish heritage, my wife is a carrier for a genetic disease called gaucher's disease. If our child had that, there are three potential types.

Type 1: Slightly shorter life expectency
Type 2: Won't see their second birthday
Type 3: Won't live past 30

If you were in a situation where the odds were already against you due to "advanced maternal age" I don't know that many people would want to go through 9 months of pregnancy, then watch their 1.5 year old die, then try again.

I get that there are arguments to be made about not wanting to get abortions because the child isn't "perfect" but some of the defects out there almost make it seem like an abortion is the more humane approach.

Type 2 would be rough on us... but I feel horrible for a kid who grows up knowing he'll be dead by 30. How do you live a normal life with that over your head?

Fortunately I'm not a carrier(just got the results the other day) but we definitely would have done a full amnio regardless of miscarriage and looked into abortions if it was guaranteed.
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