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I started visiting a Catholic Church recently. During the weekly devotions, I often hear petitions/prayers from church members praying to have a baby. I shared with some sisters an innovative AI ovulation tracker using saliva as I find it highly accurate in tracking and predicting ovulation cycle. However, I was told by a senior member of the church that this is not allowed as Catholic Churches only encourage national family planning without any drugs or IVF procedures. I’m puzzled as the saliva test kit, which I am familiar with, is not invasive, hence it’s safe, and does not require medication nor does it induce ovulation or other hormonal changes to the body to achieve pregnancy.
Anyone has a similar experience, or a different one with your church, to share?
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I’m not Catholic, but the Catholics I know choose to use both birth control and aids for fertility.
I am old enough to remember when the fear of pregnancy in Catholic families was so bad that one of the parents slept on the couch after child #5 or so. It caused a lot of heartbreak.
I think that any given Catholic Church is guided by how liberal the priest is. Maybe you need to find a parish that suits your beliefs better?
I started visiting a Catholic Church recently. During the weekly devotions, I often hear petitions/prayers from church members praying to have a baby. I shared with some sisters an innovative AI ovulation tracker using saliva as I find it highly accurate in tracking and predicting ovulation cycle. However, I was told by a senior member of the church that this is not allowed as Catholic Churches only encourage national family planning without any drugs or IVF procedures. I’m puzzled as the saliva test kit, which I am familiar with, is not invasive, hence it’s safe, and does not require medication nor does it induce ovulation or other hormonal changes to the body to achieve pregnancy.
A senior member is not a term often used. I am assuming it's a Nun.
Anyway, their answer was sheer ignorance. Don't think twice about using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts
I am old enough to remember when the fear of pregnancy in Catholic families was so bad that one of the parents slept on the couch after child #5 or so. It caused a lot of heartbreak.
The truth is . . . . natural family planning simply does not work after the age of 35. If you research their test data, it never includes women over the age of 35 or perimenopause (pre-menopause) women. The ovulation cycle is too unpredictable. Women can go for six months without ovulating so there is no safe time. Hence, years of heartbreak.
Last edited by YorktownGal; 08-23-2022 at 08:47 AM..
I started visiting a Catholic Church recently. During the weekly devotions, I often hear petitions/prayers from church members praying to have a baby. I shared with some sisters an innovative AI ovulation tracker using saliva as I find it highly accurate in tracking and predicting ovulation cycle. However, I was told by a senior member of the church that this is not allowed as Catholic Churches only encourage national family planning without any drugs or IVF procedures. I’m puzzled as the saliva test kit, which I am familiar with, is not invasive, hence it’s safe, and does not require medication nor does it induce ovulation or other hormonal changes to the body to achieve pregnancy.
Anyone has a similar experience, or a different one with your church, to share?
Some RC parishes have gone very “rad trad” (radical traditional) in recent years. As active numbers of parishioners dwindle, and as many parishes shut down entirely and sell off the building properties, there isn’t much left but a few folks I’d describe as old time, pre-1960s reforms, hardliners.
When I was growing up, circa 1980s and 1990s, more and more young adults from strict RC families began cohabiting before or without marriage, and practising birth control if they were married. Most stopped practising the religion years ago, at this point. There are a lot of ex-Catholics around.
I think the commitment to natural family planning is dubious if there are less than 10 kids in a family. That was once the norm in my corner of the world. They can just pop out a more modern “big” family of 4 to 6 kids nowadays, and then get a tubal ligation done on the grounds that further pregnancies would endanger the mother’s health. It also ensures the family finances stay stable, which is a convenient coincidence. Eh maybe I’m cynical.
The Latin Mass Churches are going strong and increases in the number of their attendees. So much so, I think Pope Francis is threaten by them. His restrictions on the Latin Mass is nothing short of cruel. I don't attend Latin Mass, but why should other Catholics attend it?
Many Catholics are moving to the Orthodox Church - Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches.
It's the liberal parish - both Catholic and Protestant - which are losing parishioners and closing down.
The Latin Mass Churches are going strong and increases in the number of their attendees. So much so, I think Pope Francis is threaten by them. His restrictions on the Latin Mass is nothing short of cruel. I don't attend Latin Mass, but why should other Catholics attend it?
Many Catholics are moving to the Orthodox Church - Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches.
It's the liberal parish - both Catholic and Protestant - which are losing parishioners and closing down.
I have no opinion about the Latin Mass or however other people choose to worship, or not worship. Different strokes for different folks.
I agree with you that the liberal parishes are disappearing; I don’t think “rad trad” parishes are keeping pace with the growth of atheist or agnostic members of society in Western countries. I’m not even sure how long the uptake will continue in Southern Hemisphere countries as this century continues.
I don’t agree with rad trad teachings that condemn contraception as sinful though. Which is the thread topic.
I know of a family with 13 kids, who were all expected to drop out of school after 8th grade to get jobs and support themselves, in a North American community circa 1960s/70s. Heh, the “good old days.” My beliefs are that contraception is a rational choice, an acceptable choice, and IUDs and contraceptive pills are not the ways of the devil… that’s my opinion though.
Rad trad couples with iron self-control and 4 kids will be shocked when they get to heaven and they see the family of 13 and the Protestants standing there too.
I don’t agree with rad trad teachings that condemn contraception as sinful though. Which is the thread topic.
Rad trad couples with iron self-control and 4 kids will be shocked when they get to heaven and they see the family of 13 and the Protestants standing there too.
The thread topic was on how to monitor ovulation.
I can't imagine Rad Trad couple with be shocked when they get to heaven and see a family of 13 or Protestants standing there. I can't imagine how that came up.
I can't imagine Rad Trad couple with be shocked when they get to heaven and see a family of 13 or Protestants standing there. I can't imagine how that came up.
The original post was from a non-Catholic who was told by a “senior” Catholic that a saliva test was contrary to Church teachings (and thus sinful). I have no clue if the person who said that was clergy or not, or if it was accurate or not, or how the Church applies incrementalism to these situations, or if the question should be interpreted through a pre- or post-Vatican II lens… no idea what the current theology says about saliva tests for monitoring ovulation.
I can see where some priests and other Catholics could take different positions and say different things, though. It happens. Priests disagree about many things, so do lay Catholics.
My point about the family sizes and various contraception approaches is that personally, I don’t anyone headed to the eternal lake of fire based on family size alone. Or based on whether they use a saliva test to monitor ovulation, or get an IUD, etc.
Adults are free and autonomous individuals who shouldn’t need to discuss family size choices with anyone outside the couple. It’s frankly no one else’s business, it’s a matter of conscience at least. I guess that’s what I find odd about the situation. But, they were offering advice to peers who were asking for help. Ask for advice, you’ll get some bad advice along with the good. Thus the decision ultimately rests with the couple and their consciences, imo…
Some people would view it as their religious obligation to intervene I suppose.
I lost interest in what I see as overly scrupulous, incomprehensible rituals and practises awhile ago.
The person who answered that she isn't Catholic and that "the Catholics I know choose to use both birth control and aids for fertility" is off the mark. If you aren't Catholic, then don't give advice about this topic. Catholics who "choose to use both birth control and aids for fertility" aren't Catholics. They are "Catholics in name only". They are not adhering to Catholic teachings.
There are some posts here that are offensive to Catholics, and I respectfully have to call you out on it. "Rad Trad" is pretty offensive. Would you say offensive names to Muslims or Jews or Jehovah Witnesses or Hindus? Well, stop name calling of Catholics who love and believe in their faith.
The person who answered that she isn't Catholic and that "the Catholics I know choose to use both birth control and aids for fertility" is off the mark. If you aren't Catholic, then don't give advice about this topic. Catholics who "choose to use both birth control and aids for fertility" aren't Catholics. They are "Catholics in name only". They are not adhering to Catholic teachings.
There are some posts here that are offensive to Catholics, and I respectfully have to call you out on it. "Rad Trad" is pretty offensive. Would you say offensive names to Muslims or Jews or Jehovah Witnesses or Hindus? Well, stop name calling of Catholics who love and believe in their faith.
Well, I don't know any Catholic families who have more than 3 children so there must be a lot of Catholics in name only.
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