Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Thank you for your condolences, Highway. I am very glad to know that your child is doing well.
Thomas, I don't think that anybody is truly prepared to face a diagnosis like the one I received. I can tell you that my spouse and I fully understood the gravity of our decision to terminate the pregnancy, and we still thought it was our best option.
We were very fortunate to have the support of our extended families and friends. Because my mother is a Critical Care OB nurse at a Level III Regional Center, we also had the benefit of extraordinary perinatal & pediatric specialists who helped us understand exactly what we were facing. I will be forever grateful for their expert guidance at a time when my world was falling apart, and likewise for holding me together during a terrifying second pregnancy one year later that had a much happier ending.
My husband and I walk in a kind of middle ground regarding abortion, even as we espouse our pro-choice position. I am horrified when I hear other pro-choice advocates refer to the embryo as just a lump of cells. Likewise, I cringe when pro-lifers refuse to see that abortion is reasonable in some circumstances. Neither position rings true to me. This issue is so incredibly complicated.
You are so very right. It is a very tough issue. I am so glad we are all able to hash this out with respect to each others points of view. I feel it's been a benefit to see other points of view and look at mine a little closer.
formercalifornian
First off, I sympathize with your situation. I don't know what I would do in your situation, but can't imagine the pain you must have went through.
Yes, this is a good point. Which is why I do believe abortions are necessary. However, with this logic, why don't we kill all disabled/infants/orphans that strain our society? I hate to break it to you, but during history, this is similar logic used to justify genocides.
Sometimes, abortions are necessary. Are my beliefs arrogant or practical? I think a little both. A woman's liberties are important. But so is a human life. We should never delude ourselves in thinking that we are not ending a human life.
Very well said. It's a very balanced argument with great points. What you said offers a lot to think about.
The problem is both sides find the other side's idea frightening and arrogant. Stop and think about it for a moment. highway29south sees a fetus as significant as say a newborn, child, spouse, father, friend, neighbor.
Their response: who makes us the judge of when life becomes significant. highway29south is just expressing thoughts.
I am and I mean no disrespect to anyone by expressing my views. I am sorry if I came across as anything other than fair in my posts.
I commend yo for all your efforts, you are a minority. to your suggestion, there is no solution to offer a women compelled to get back alley abortion. none. they do not want to carry the pregnancy to term. it doesn't matter if I approve of their reason or not. no solution will stop them. abortion like I said is a fact of life and needs to be safe, which means legal.
Thank you. I do disagree with women being "forced" into back alley abortions and I really wish our society would explore better options for these women (I think if we all put our heads together we could find options), but I understand your point of view.
T
I am horrified when I hear other pro-choice advocates refer to the embryo as just a lump of cells. Likewise, I cringe when pro-lifers refuse to see that abortion is reasonable in some circumstances. Neither position rings true to me. This issue is so incredibly complicated.
Yes, you are right. I cannot say that I understand what you went through, but I can say to those that might condemn you, the issue is more complicated than what most people realize. Sometimes, for life to be sane, abortions are necessary.
My father was an OBGYN, who I always felt was a very honorable man. There are many stories of abortions. Ones with pain and others of perdition. In most cases, extreme cases. Those who felt the only alternative was an abortion like yours. And those who did not give it much thought (Yes, a whim. and yes, unfortunately, many people are that stupid. more than you can realize.).
My heart goes out to cases like yours. I support abortion in most cases, because of cases like yours.
However, there are a lot of people not like you. Why do pro-choice people delude themselves in saying no one aborts simply on a whim? This is a lie. How many people take Mifeprex without much thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui
these situations with abortions are about pregnancy being terminated, not genocide or infant/child murder.
Please reread my comment. I know we are talking about aborted pregnancies. I was commenting on the logic. The logic is erriely similar to those used in past genocides. I agree that the logic is practical, yet, frightening at the same time.
Yes, you are right. I cannot say that I understand what you went through, but I can say to those that might condemn you, the issue is more complicated than what most people realize. Sometimes, for life to be sane, abortions are necessary.
My father was an OBGYN, who I always felt was a very honorable man. There are many stories of abortions. Ones with pain and others of perdition. In most cases, extreme cases. Those who felt the only alternative was an abortion like yours. And those who did not give it much thought (Yes, a whim. and yes, unfortunately, many people are that stupid. more than you can realize.).
My heart goes out to cases like yours. I support abortion in most cases, because of cases like yours.
However, there are a lot of people not like you. Why do pro-choice people delude themselves in saying no one aborts simply on a whim? This is a lie. How many people take Mifeprex without much thought.
Please reread my comment. I know we are talking about aborted pregnancies. I was commenting on the logic. The logic is erriely similar to those used in past genocides. I agree that the logic is practical, yet, frightening at the same time.
I can see how you could stretch the logic out to include infant and child murder and genocide. I just wouldn't take it that far. for me it is just a very private personal decision and I want the woman to be the one with a choice. she can choose to have the baby, keep it give it up for adoption or abort. the choices are hard but it is better than no choice at all IMO
Thomas, I've been pondering your concerns, and I think you have a valid point: as a society, we should be very worried about crossing the line into eugenics. That said, on an individual basis, I do not believe that couples should be forced to bring a severely disabled child into the world.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that they would never abort a disabled child, a position that is all too easy to adopt when you've never received such terrible news, but I wonder if those people have truly considered the consequences of that position. Severely disabled children are a tremendous burden on families and can quickly exhaust physical, emotional, and financial resources. When that happens, there is little in the way of support for either the child or the family, who are basically left out to dry. Long term, it's not a pretty picture: divorce, bankruptcy, and chronic depression are common in families with disabled children. That some continue in the face of such challenges is a tribute to their perseverance, but does not necessarily mean the rest of us have lesser character.
It's been many years since my termination, and, never fear, I've developed a very thick skin when it comes to the occasional condemnation. American culture loves its moral absolutes, and throwing people under the bus when they break the rules is our national pastime. I just stop and pray fervently that the person hurling the accusations of depravity never faces what I faced. After all this time, I am truly at peace with my choice. I am not threatened nor am I offended that others think differently than I do about the validity of abortion. Furthermore, I deeply appreciate the mostly respectful discussion we've had thus far. I think we all benefit from sharing our opinions openly and honestly, even if we ultimately fail to find common ground.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 06-26-2009 at 12:36 AM..
I am pro life. I do not believe that blowing up clinics or killing doctors who provide abortions is right. I would never consider it, and no one I know who is pro life would, no matter how strongly they feel. Radicals, yeah they would. "Radicals" of any type of group use violence for their so called causes.
I do believe life is precious. Having a disabled child is no picnic. I know, I have one. Would I have aborted him had I known? No way. Even given the exhaustion, tears and overwhelming work I've gone through with him. Why? Because it is not my right to murder my child and take his life away just because I don't want the responsibility.
People use abortion for lots of reasons. In my experience working with the poor, it is used for birth control. Sleep with a man you don't like and get pregnant? Kill the child. Have a child that is less than perfect? Kill the child. Baby doesn't fit into your current life style? Kill the child. Easy, convenient and it's legal, after all. I have yet to meet a woman who is in severe trouble and needs an abortion for any serious reason. And I've seen hundreds of clients. Birth control doesn't even cross their minds. After all, they can just have an abortion. Who wants to bother with pesky things like getting married and using birth control?
These days, no one wants responsibility. Sleep with someone and who cares the cost. You won't pay it. The baby will. And make sure you call it a "fetus" instead of a baby, it will make you feel better and remind you it's not human until you say it is (and by the way, when is that?). I still don't understand the reasoning behind late term abortions. So far, I have yet to hear why people kill these babies except for convenience.
With so many people not wanting these children, what do you think would become of the chldren if abortion weren't an option? I can't imagine that an unwanted child would have a very good life. You might say adoption is a good option. But for those people who want adopt, it's a very complicated and expensive process. There are children in the Dept of Family Services in my state that are in their teens, and who have never been adopted. Mainly because they're looked at as "damaged" at this point. Some are children of color that Whites don't want. They'd rather fly to China or Romania than adopt a black baby 20 miles from their house. The idea of abortion for convenience isn't a nice idea, but if the mother doesn't want her baby that badly, it may be the only option for her. Sure, using birth control would be the best option. But there will always be people who fail to use it or don't use it regularly. Just like there will always be people who get divorced, become drug addicts, cheat on their spouses, etc. Humans aren't perfect.
Thomas, I've been pondering your concerns, and I think you have a valid point: as a society, we should be very worried about crossing the line into eugenics. That said, on an individual basis, I do not believe that couples should be forced to bring a severely disabled child into the world.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that they would never abort a disabled child, a position that is all too easy to adopt when you've never received such terrible news, but I wonder if those people have truly considered the consequences of that position. Severely disabled children are a tremendous burden on families and can quickly exhaust physical, emotional, and financial resources. When that happens, there is little in the way of support for either the child or the family, who are basically left out to dry. Long term, it's not a pretty picture: divorce, bankruptcy, and chronic depression are common in families with disabled children. That some continue in the face of such challenges is a tribute to their perseverance, but does not necessarily mean the rest of us have lesser character.
It's been many years since my termination, and, never fear, I've developed a very thick skin when it comes to the occasional condemnation. American culture loves its moral absolutes, and throwing people under the bus when they break the rules is our national pastime. I just stop and pray fervently that the person hurling the accusations of depravity never faces what I faced. After all this time, I am truly at peace with my choice. I am not threatened nor am I offended that others think differently than I do about the validity of abortion. Furthermore, I deeply appreciate the mostly respectful discussion we've had thus far. I think we all benefit from sharing our opinions openly and honestly, even if we ultimately fail to find common ground.
So thoughtfully expressed. I think any discussion should be about the issue and not about judging other people. I am one of those who would not abort a disabled child but I also understand the decision of those who feel differently. I have a child with a disability and I now understand the strain it can put on someone.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
