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Abortion wasn't an option for my parents, but raising my severely retarded brother nearly destroyed our family.
The murder of Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller has intensified the national debate over late-term abortions. I have a special interest in this topic because I had a brother who was severely retarded. Though he lived well into adulthood, he never developed beyond an infantile state.
Abortion wasn't an option for my parents, but raising my severely retarded brother nearly destroyed our family.
The murder of Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller has intensified the national debate over late-term abortions. I have a special interest in this topic because I had a brother who was severely retarded. Though he lived well into adulthood, he never developed beyond an infantile state.
The one thing I don't understand about radical pro lifers are their willingness to take a life or threaten a life of someone who is doing something that is legal. (moral is a whole nother issue and is not the point of my previous comment.) I thought pro lifers thought life was precious, at least that is what most of them spew, but apparently it's not when it comes down to the nitty gritty. Same thing with radical pro choicers who are against the death penalty, again something that is done and legal in most states. I don't understand how many of them,(pro lifers and pro choicers) can be for one but not the other.
If life is precious, that should mean all life, whether that life is a killer. If it's okay to abort a child, it should also be okay to put someone to death for heinous crimes.
I myself am for right to choose but I do not believe abortions should be used as the only form of birth control, I'm also for the death penalty, but I'm not sure where I stand on late term abortions. I understand the possible need for a late term abortion (i.e. the health of the mother or child) but surely there has to be a better way, like maybe an early c-section or labor induction.
The one thing I don't understand about radical pro lifers are their willingness to take a life or threaten a life of someone who is doing something that is legal. (moral is a whole nother issue and is not the point of my previous comment.) I thought pro lifers thought life was precious, at least that is what most of them spew, but apparently it's not when it comes down to the nitty gritty. Same thing with radical pro choicers who are against the death penalty, again something that is done and legal in most states. I don't understand how many of them,(pro lifers and pro choicers) can be for one but not the other.
If life is precious, that should mean all life, whether that life is a killer. If it's okay to abort a child, it should also be okay to put someone to death for heinous crimes.
I myself am for right to choose but I do not believe abortions should be used as the only form of birth control, I'm also for the death penalty, but I'm not sure where I stand on late term abortions. I understand the possible need for a late term abortion (i.e. the health of the mother or child) but surely there has to be a better way, like maybe an early c-section or labor induction.
The one thing I don't understand about radical pro lifers are their willingness to take a life or threaten a life of someone who is doing something that is legal.
Not to mention the willingness of even moderate prolifers to tacitly condone such violence with such statements as "Well, two wrongs don't make a right."
You've heard of damning someone with faint praise?
In this case, what these alleged "moderates" are doing is praising someone with faint damnation.
It's like if your son lynched the family dog and skinned it alive, and you responded, "Oh, you naughty little rascal. That's not very nice." *giggle*.
The one thing I don't understand about radical pro lifers are their willingness to take a life or threaten a life of someone who is doing something that is legal. (moral is a whole nother issue and is not the point of my previous comment.) I thought pro lifers thought life was precious, at least that is what most of them spew, but apparently it's not when it comes down to the nitty gritty. Same thing with radical pro choicers who are against the death penalty, again something that is done and legal in most states.
When pro-life folk say life is precious, they most often mean... "all innocent life is precious". Most of them don't give a rat's #ss about violent criminals. Hence, that is why most are pro-capital punishment.
I am pro-choice, but it amazes me how many fellow pro-choicers can not get their head out of their #ss, and understand a pro-lifer's logic.
1. They attribute significance to the life of the fetus, and consider it innocent and significant... perhaps, as significant as a developed baby (I think most of us feel the life of a developed baby is more significant that a criminal.).
2. Since they feel that the life of a fetus is similar to that as a fully-developed baby... obviously, some may be at odds with an abortionist. Most probably see the abortionist as a murderer even though he is not one lawfully. Think about it.
3. Many see the provision of medical abortions through surgical or pharmaceutical means as genocide. More than 50 million abortions have occurred since Roe vs Wade. To some, this may be horrifying.
I am not justifying what happened. For gosh sake, I am pro-choice, but sheesh... things are not black or white.
The same disgust that you feel for this person killing an abortionist. That is probably similar to the disgust that pro-life people feel with abortions.
As for partial-birth abortions. That's a very difficult subject. I am personally against them unless the mother's life is in danger. After the third-trimester, the fetus is almost fully developed. But I am not sure if I like legislation getting in the way of a physician's autonomy with their patients. At the moment, there really is no good answers in preventing frivolous partial-birth abortions (which I find amoral) from happening.
Not to mention the willingness of even moderate prolifers to tacitly condone such violence with such statements as "Well, two wrongs don't make a right."
First, I think almost everyone felt the event was reprehensible. However, I think you are forgetting that those who did not, probably find abortions reprehensible. Thus, in their eyes, they would not see it just as "two wrongs". Rather as "a wrong which will prevent further wrongs".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane72
It's like if your son lynched the family dog and skinned it alive, and you responded, "Oh, you naughty little rascal. That's not very nice." *giggle*.
Probably an example that a pro-life person would like... After further diagnosis, an obstetrician determines that the fetus will develop extreme disabilities and decides to performs an abortion on a fetus intentionally without the mother's consent. The mother uncovers the truth and is enraged, and unlawfully kills the physician.
The only difference in my eyes is perspective. To the mother and pro-life advocate's perspectives, that life is significant. To others, that life may not be as significant, perhaps, putting a burden on society.
I am pro life. I do not believe that blowing up clinics or killing doctors who provide abortions is right. I would never consider it, and no one I know who is pro life would, no matter how strongly they feel. Radicals, yeah they would. "Radicals" of any type of group use violence for their so called causes.
I do believe life is precious. Having a disabled child is no picnic. I know, I have one. Would I have aborted him had I known? No way. Even given the exhaustion, tears and overwhelming work I've gone through with him. Why? Because it is not my right to murder my child and take his life away just because I don't want the responsibility.
People use abortion for lots of reasons. In my experience working with the poor, it is used for birth control. Sleep with a man you don't like and get pregnant? Kill the child. Have a child that is less than perfect? Kill the child. Baby doesn't fit into your current life style? Kill the child. Easy, convenient and it's legal, after all. I have yet to meet a woman who is in severe trouble and needs an abortion for any serious reason. And I've seen hundreds of clients. Birth control doesn't even cross their minds. After all, they can just have an abortion. Who wants to bother with pesky things like getting married and using birth control?
These days, no one wants responsibility. Sleep with someone and who cares the cost. You won't pay it. The baby will. And make sure you call it a "fetus" instead of a baby, it will make you feel better and remind you it's not human until you say it is (and by the way, when is that?). I still don't understand the reasoning behind late term abortions. So far, I have yet to hear why people kill these babies except for convenience.
I am pro life. I do not believe that blowing up clinics or killing doctors who provide abortions is right. I would never consider it, and no one I know who is pro life would, no matter how strongly they feel. Radicals, yeah they would. "Radicals" of any type of group use violence for their so called causes.
I do believe life is precious. Having a disabled child is no picnic. I know, I have one. Would I have aborted him had I known? No way. Even given the exhaustion, tears and overwhelming work I've gone through with him. Why? Because it is not my right to murder my child and take his life away just because I don't want the responsibility.
People use abortion for lots of reasons. In my experience working with the poor, it is used for birth control. Sleep with a man you don't like and get pregnant? Kill the child. Have a child that is less than perfect? Kill the child. Baby doesn't fit into your current life style? Kill the child. Easy, convenient and it's legal, after all. I have yet to meet a woman who is in severe trouble and needs an abortion for any serious reason. And I've seen hundreds of clients. Birth control doesn't even cross their minds. After all, they can just have an abortion. Who wants to bother with pesky things like getting married and using birth control?
These days, no one wants responsibility. Sleep with someone and who cares the cost. You won't pay it. The baby will. And make sure you call it a "fetus" instead of a baby, it will make you feel better and remind you it's not human until you say it is (and by the way, when is that?). I still don't understand the reasoning behind late term abortions. So far, I have yet to hear why people kill these babies except for convenience.
Hmm... I am pro-choice but I have to say that you do an excellent job stating your viewpoints as someone that's pro-life. Kudos to you.
Much of what I see with pro-lifers is radical BS that doesn't even logically make sense.
Anyhow... I find it amazing that you say women use abortion as a birth control method. I know this happens, I suppose, but not to the extent that it seems you've witnessed it. Honestly... when I hear of women that have had multiple abortions, one after another, I wonder why the first time around it didn't freak them out enough to wrap it up...
Hmm... I am pro-choice but I have to say that you do an excellent job stating your viewpoints as someone that's pro-life. Kudos to you.
Much of what I see with pro-lifers is radical BS that doesn't even logically make sense.
Anyhow... I find it amazing that you say women use abortion as a birth control method. I know this happens, I suppose, but not to the extent that it seems you've witnessed it. Honestly... when I hear of women that have had multiple abortions, one after another, I wonder why the first time around it didn't freak them out enough to wrap it up...
I was as surprised as you about why women use abortion. I always thought it was because they were in trouble or were raped. I was shocked when I found out otherwise as a counselor. Believe me, I wished my clients had different reasons for their abortions. Birth control seems like such a cold reason to kill a child when other methods of preventing pregnancy are so numerous and available.
I didn't add this before but what I saw as a counselor working with low income/poor women was the pressure for young girls to have babies. I actually had girls come to me as young as 14 saying they were depressed because they could not get pregnant like their peers. Can you imagine having that kind of pressure at that age when you should be worried about school and what songs you like on your IPod?
I think this all comes together to cause great harm to women in the form of leading them to believe their worth is tyed to having children and controlling the number of children they have through abortion. It's harmful and damaging to see it first hand and my heart broke for these kids. These pressures also keep women under the thumb of men yet again by forcing them to kill their babies and by men not taking responsibility for the number of unwanted children. Men need to stand up and take an equal part in having children. Society really needs a kick in the butt IMHO.
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