Prescott Then and Now (Phoenix, Tucson: real estate, condos, how much)

[bluepacific]

Hi Guys/Gals

I wrote a reply on one of the Threads about Prescott and I mentioned the movie Junior Bonner. I'm living in Sweden and admittedly , I miss the Southwest. It started me thinking of how much I'd like to purchase the old 1972 film 'Junior Bonner'. While searching and finally purchsing the film I read what one reviewer said about the film and how it made him feel. His thoughts and feelings really sum up how I feel and what most here on this Forum have commented on Arizona. His thoughts and reflection could fit most any town in arizona today. Here's the quote on his review.

Nostalgic Snapshot of Prescott

''I first heard of this film on a trip to Prescott for the 1973 Rodeo. Three Days of hard Liquor, sex and wild livestock ( I had sat out Woodstock in a NYC jail and had to make do ) Of course the film was all the buzz , but the highlight of 1973 was an ill-advised visit by a chapter of Hell's Angels who did'nt know the Locals carried side arms. They had a most humiliating exit. The former territorial capitol , a moribund Prescott sat between the exhausted Gold fields in the mountains and the Ranches suffering from poor beef prices out on the high Prarrie. The Palace Bar was the Queen of raucous grouping of saloons on Whiskey Row. A place to rub elbows with crazed Prospectors and working Cowboys. The town's only nod to modernity was a Western Auto Parts store and a Sears Catalog Outlet ..... I don't think they had a McDonalds.''

''Today the faceless crowd savors it's victory. The Ranchers cried ''Uncle'' and gave in to the developers or joined them. Whiskey Row in name only, the Bars have become boutiques and the Palace is a Salad Bar. The city groans in Gridlock under the traffic of her sprawling Suburbs. Street widening has obliterated the familiar or bypassed now inaccessable charms. Strip malls and the usual Fast Food joints line the approaches for miles and miles. A flood of califoenia retirees have raised the costs and codes to push jo Don Baker's trailers to rural ghettos ranging 30 to 40 miles out. Pheonicians have taken the old Gold Camps for summer homes and condos. The once unbroken mountain views and sweep of prarrie are dappled blurrs of asphalt shingle, Stucco and neon. S straggling herd of antelope ( A Protected Spieces ) are under edict of removal in one housing developement and if Junnor bonner comes back to town , he'd better be driving an Escalante.''

''The film is a poignant story proven true. I have'nt the heart to revisit the rodeo.''

Well , that about says it for me. What about you ????

Cheers , Kevin

[brian_2]

I applaud your post. Your thoughts and references are dead on. Prescott memories of old are what Young's Farm is soon to be - gone forever. A Prescott Valley housing development branded itself "Pronghorn Ranch", about all that remains of the areas wild is in name only these days. The irony of this would not be lost on a Cheever or an Updike, authors who have penned this transformation of American communities in literature. I reside twenty-five minutes outside Prescott Valley, and I have business in there often. I hear the old timers talk, but it's mostly newcomers talking about their needs for more, more, more - and more is more access to more chain stores, more chain food, and more of the transplanted consumer society that they left elsewhere. Hello! Trading in the California Lexus for a Prescott Dodge Ram does not a rancher make. The commercial consumerism and corporate residential development sprawl seem to be mocking Thumb Butte and the surrounding decomposing granite.
One day all the current sprawl will decompose too, but at a much more rapid rate than that of the granite. Then maybe the Pronghorn will return.

[bluepacific]

Hi Brian

The last time I went thru Prescott was with my son in July 4th weekend 2003. I was totally blown away by what has happened to the beautiful Forest around Prescott. A vast majority of Ponderosa Pines were totally dead. At the time I still lived in Anza California which is high up in the mountains above Palm Springs. Those forest in SoCal are seeing the same major die back as you folks over there. Has the rainfall , even Monsoon really been that bad the last decade or so ???????

I always remained in Anza as it reminded me alot of Arizona. I always wanted to move to your area, but for the same reasons i mentioned and that have been mentioned by many of you, I just felt I'd be one more Californian contributing to the Chaos there. so just visiting regularly seemed to be the only option.

Oh well this next time round I won't be restraining myself. Fall is already hitting here in Sweden and that really is sad. I don't mind fall or winter , but at least when I lived in Anza, I always had the option of driving out of it in about 30 to 40 minutes to the desert.

Hope things are'nt to ruined when I get back

Cheers , Kevin

[Ashley A.]

My sentiments exactly Kevin! That reviewer knows exactly what has become of Prescott. When we go there to shop (we are in the Verde Valley and either go to Flagstaff or Prescott to do most of our shopping), I still love to see the courthouse with it's gigantic trees and green lawns......sort of brings back the nostalgic feelings from the 70's when I first came to Prescott. If you can look away and try ever so hard to ignore the numerous teens "hanging out" on the courthouse lawns with their pants sagging below their rear-ends, and their tattoos and flaming pink and blue hair and their boomboxes blaring some filthy hip-hop garbage........it is really a beautiful spot to sit and reflect..........but it's REALLY, REALLLY hard to ignore them! And it's really, really hard to ignore the constant flow of traffic with horns blaring and speakers booming. We took a walk through the courthouse grounds a couple Christmas eve's ago..........we used to do that all the time .....it used to be so beautiful with a soft snowfall and twinkling lights and so, so quiet...............but after that time, we won't go back. We couldn't find a place to park. Had to walk 5 blocks after finally finding a spot on a residential street. The crowds in the Courthouse square were unreal! Everyone was shoving and pushing and talking loudly and it just ruined it for us............it will never be the same. Sorry to say...............(

Your author/reviewer was right about the saloons/shops on Whiskey Row becoming "yupified!!" Used to be fun to just window shop and walk in to Matt's for a cold beer on a summer afternoon............now it seems it's salad and sushi............. ( Thanks for sharing the review from your movie! Hope you read my post on the other thread relating to the Jr. Bonner movie and I added a few things re. Chino Valley...........
Good day to you!!

[brian_2]

The Bark Beetle, fires, and development are the result of what you see with the loss of pines. Nature is only responsible for two out of these three.

I suppose one could say that for many, the lifestyle of the rancher days of the past are by and large gone forever, but the land owning ranchers get the last laugh - they've sold, and are selling at a big profit their acres to developers who market homes and building lots to newcomers who will never know how peaceful and simple life in Prescott and the Valley once were. Isn't it sad how many newcomers look down their noses at the ranchers and so-called rednecks in Prescott, when it's the ranchers and their offspring who were here first and have had to tolerate the newcomers arrogance and buildout sprawl of their home turf.

[bluepacific]

Hi Brian

In the last post I mentioned I had been to Prescott, My son and I also had stopped at Young's Farms for Breakfast before going on to Slide Rock State Park in Sedona. I use to always love having Breakfast there. For that matter whenever I come over , I always look for a Mom & Pop place to do business. I remember now that controversy over the water rights. I now see from their website that the family is selling out and moving to Oregon. What a shame.

Also what a shame or sham on Officials who push them out for so called bigger and better developement. I know what the real situation was here. That family farm was not generating enough Tax Revenue as a huge upscale developement would. Water was'nt the issue.

Then again , I think water is an issue for all of Arizona. I see developement everywhere and my question has always been , 'Where is all the water going to come from ??????????' They can only suck so much from the Colorado and that for the moment can only be gravity fed to Pheonix and Tucson. What about Prescott and other growing large interior cities ?????? The Aquafer can only provide so much. Will they get it from Lake Powell and pump it South ????

I remember when my friends first moved to Chino Valley. There use to be a large shallow lake down there to the west of Paulden. But it has'nt been there in years. Now it's just wide open dry lake bed flat land. The Water table is definitely going down in Chino where those city wells suck alot from the Aquafer. The area alway did have a wealth of water , but now I really see that in trouble.

I just don't understand the need for continued Mega-Developement to keep things alive. I guess years ago , people lived more simply. I saw much comment on the possible Disney theme Grand Canyon Park near Ashfork , Williams and Seligman in that Seligman thread. I'd really hate to see that as well. I always thought of AZ as simply having the best Natural Wonder Theme Parks in the world , without all the expensive Comercialism from the west coast.

Wow What will it look like by the time I come back.

Cheers , Kevin

[Duckcollar99]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

Hi Brian


I always remained in Anza as it reminded me alot of Arizona. I always wanted to move to your area, but for the same reasons i mentioned and that have been mentioned by many of you, I just felt I'd be one more Californian contributing to the Chaos there. so just visiting regularly seemed to be the only option.


Hope things are'nt to ruined when I get back

Cheers , Kevin

If one reads posts from other forums on western states, such as Nevada,
Idaho, New Mexico, Oregon, etc., you begin to see a common thread: rich
Californians, usually retired, move in, buy homes at inflated prices, price the
locals out of the housing market and, last but not least, destroy the ambiance
and identity of a particular place by demanding the same shopping centers
and restaurants that they left behind.

The problem my friends, isn't Californians, nor is the problem any newcomer from any other state of the union. The problem is LOCAL. Who do you think
sells homes and real estate to these newcomers? LOCALS. If locals were so
fervently bent on maintaining their "unique" lifestyles, would they willingly give
that up by selling their residences to newcomers or their parcels of land to
real estate developers? Let's face it, if a real estate developer wants to
develop a 150-acre parcel of land and build 1,000 houses on it, somebody
((i.e., a LOCAL)) has to be willing to sell it to him. The land just doesn't materialize out of thin air.

Here in the Baltimore/Washington D.C. metropolitan area where I live, the governments of Virgina and Maryland have taken modest steps to stop the spread of suburban sprawl by among other things, purchasing land to be put
into a "land bank" that is off limits to development, granting property tax breaks to farmers so they aren't forced to sell their property to pay their tax
bill, limiting the number of houses that can be build on an acre of land, etc.
Nothing is going to put a halt to development. After all, the current population of the U.S. now stands at 399 million plus people. Just 35 years ago, I can recall then President Richard Nixon appearing on television to announce that the population of the U.S. had just surpassed 200 million people. BUT SOMETHING CAN BE DONE.

If people in western states such as Arizona and in communities like Prescott,
AZ are really serious about MANAGING growth, the first thing they can do is
put the right people in place on local and regional zoning boards. The last time I checked, zoning board officials nationwide were still required to be elected to their positions. If people are too lazy or too dumb to elect the right officials to zoning boards, then they deserve the haphazard and unchecked growth that comes their way.

From what I've read and heard, Prescott, AZ is still a pretty good place to live. I've seriously considered Prescott as a possible retirement location. If
the citizens of Prescott and surrounding communities get serious about electing the right officials to manage and regulate growth, Prescott and other communities in the western part of the country need not fear development and can remain viable communities for decades to come. The alternative is
to bury one's head in the sand, point fingers at some non-existent boogeyman like innocent Californians, and hope the problem goes away.

[JohnnyQuest]

My hats off to DuckCollar.
You, my friend, are a rare being. Theres not enough people who think like that.
This is why the American people will sell out. They just complain and do nothing about it.

[BlackShoe]

First visit to Prescott was in the 1950's as a teenage kid.My best friend was visiting his great-grandfather for the weekend,and his folks took me along.The old gent was perhaps 90.Do not recall if he was born there or moved in at a very early age,but he was there from the very early years.He told us tales about when Prescott was the Capital,early gold mining and ranching,and,more chilling,Apache raids.In 1955 Prescott was a very small,very quiet,pleasant town.As an adult,visited a few times in the 70's,80's,and the last time,1996.My impression ten years ago was that Prescott had lost its small town charm.From comments here and elsewhere,it would seem as if today is much worse.Sad to say,but this has happened all over the West,not just Arizona.Just two examples from Oregon are Bend and Medford,once small towns like Precott,now medium sized cities with all the problems that go with rapid growth.

[bridgecanyonfire]

<quote>The problem is LOCAL. Who do you think
sells homes and real estate to these newcomers? LOCALS. If locals were so
fervently bent on maintaining their "unique" lifestyles, would they willingly give
that up by selling their residences to newcomers or their parcels of land to
real estate developers? Let's face it, if a real estate developer wants to
develop a 150-acre parcel of land and build 1,000 houses on it, somebody
((i.e., a LOCAL)) has to be willing to sell it to him. The land just doesn't materialize out of thin air.</quote>

That is soooo wrong is some cases, especially ours in Seligman. The property being sold here isnt being sold by locals at all as many of the locals here wont sell out. In fact, the properties that are being or have been sold here is through a real estate firm(Republic Properties,Inc) out of Scottsdale with Cattlemans Title Company out of Phoenix being the "financer". This gives alot of us no choice on what types of people move into this area.