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Old 11-16-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,381,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1977 View Post
I think after last nights game I may have to draft Vick as my QB next year. He is the only quarterback that gets rushing yards and TD's which is pretty huge in a fantasy league. He may not be as consistent as say, petyon manning but he has potential to have huge games like last night.
I dunno about the whole inconsistency thing.

In his starts this year he has posted 21.3, 23.1, 32.6, 26.12 and 49.32 lines.

Manning's starts: 29.32, 21.9, 24.9, 20.98, 8.46, 18.18, 19.02, 13.76 and 7.4 lines.

In the sense that Vick's incredible athleticism puts him at risk of injuries that Manning is not going to shoulder, yeah, Vick is inconsistent and may be on IR any given week, but when he's been on the field this year his play has been very consistent with the exception of that wonderful anomaly last night.

It's extremely, extremely difficult for defenses to gameplan for him and a 4-wide, single back set with Vick in the shotgun is a nightmare. Seriously, what do you do about that? You can't rush your tackles aggressively, your ends can't speed rush to the outside, your linebackers have to keep one eye on the TE or RB out of the backfield and the other on that S.O.B. in the pocket because you're not going to catch him if you get two steps out of position and he decides to GO. If you come after him on a blitz he's got a cannon for an arm and the fastest guy in the NFL and will burn you for 88 yards a la first play of the Monday night game.

He's a different guy after incarceration. I think he's grown up. He's serious about football now and isn't dealing with the marketing distractions, he probably learned who his real friends were and who he could trust and seems to have gone back to basics. I saw something that I had never really seen out of Vick before on that long touchdown to Maclin in (I think) the second quarter: Poise. The Skins were coming after him with at least six, the pocket was collapsing around him and instead of bolting (which he would have done last year or any year before that) you could plainly see him looking for the single coverage downfield. It was Maclin to his right. I'm not sure if his elbow was inbounds or not, but the point is that he wasn't a running quarterback last night. He was a real quarterback who can also kill you with his feet. A gut check, some time to grow up and working with Andy Reid have been very good for Michael Vick.

Anyway, none of that is really here-nor-there... YES, you had better have the first overall pick if you want Vick next year - especially if he stays in Philly.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: 3219'03.7"N 10643'55.9"W
8,114 posts, read 17,318,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I dunno about the whole inconsistency thing.

In his starts this year he has posted 21.3, 23.1, 32.6, 26.12 and 49.32 lines.

Manning's starts: 29.32, 21.9, 24.9, 20.98, 8.46, 18.18, 19.02, 13.76 and 7.4 lines.

In the sense that Vick's incredible athleticism puts him at risk of injuries that Manning is not going to shoulder, yeah, Vick is inconsistent and may be on IR any given week, but when he's been on the field this year his play has been very consistent with the exception of that wonderful anomaly last night.

It's extremely, extremely difficult for defenses to gameplan for him and a 4-wide, single back set with Vick in the shotgun is a nightmare. Seriously, what do you do about that? You can't rush your tackles aggressively, your ends can't speed rush to the outside, your linebackers have to keep one eye on the TE or RB out of the backfield and the other on that S.O.B. in the pocket because you're not going to catch him if you get two steps out of position and he decides to GO. If you come after him on a blitz he's got a cannon for an arm and the fastest guy in the NFL and will burn you for 88 yards a la first play of the Monday night game.

He's a different guy after incarceration. I think he's grown up. He's serious about football now and isn't dealing with the marketing distractions, he probably learned who his real friends were and who he could trust and seems to have gone back to basics. I saw something that I had never really seen out of Vick before on that long touchdown to Maclin in (I think) the second quarter: Poise. The Skins were coming after him with at least six, the pocket was collapsing around him and instead of bolting (which he would have done last year or any year before that) you could plainly see him looking for the single coverage downfield. It was Maclin to his right. I'm not sure if his elbow was inbounds or not, but the point is that he wasn't a running quarterback last night. He was a real quarterback who can also kill you with his feet. A gut check, some time to grow up and working with Andy Reid have been very good for Michael Vick.

Anyway, none of that is really here-nor-there... YES, you had better have the first overall pick if you want Vick next year - especially if he stays in Philly.
This is a great post, and it's a shame I can't rep you on it.

The Giants are up next, and I was driving into work today, I was thinking the same thing: if you are a defensive coordinator, how do game plan against this player, providing he is able to go through his progressions the way he did last night? Truthfully, you can't blitz, if he can throw the way he did to Maclin on the play you mention: that's out of the question. So, now, if you are dropping 7, you have to have a very, very strong front four that can generate a pass rush without outside blitzing linebackers. You have to have your inside backers 'stay home', and the outside LBs are going to be charged with a combination of containing the pocket while also covering the flat for the RBs or TE patterns. In addition, you are asking your corners to go one on one with the flanker and split end, while having your safeties either play cover 2 deep zone (which didn't work for the Skins last night), or cheat them up further to help the LBs cover the slot. Of course, this is under the assumption that the base offense is a 4 WR set, or splitting Celek out. There are incredible matchup problems generated by this calculus. One other thing: Vick hasn't thrown a single INT, as of yet.

Honestly, the only thing I think you can do is what the Giants did in SB XXV against the Bills: control the line of scrimmage on offense, and maintain a 40 minute time of possession, while not turning the ball over. The Eagles defensive backs and secondary play remain a weak area, and other teams best defense against Vick might very well be a good offense. Then you hope to throw off timing and rhythm.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,893 posts, read 3,520,341 times
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Question for you all. I was offered several trades today. The reason: I have Vick and Brees as my QBs. Someone in my league dropped Vick the week of his bye so I snatched him up. Here's my question, I'd like to get your thoughts on the trades.

1. David Garrard and Ray Rice for either Vick or Brees. (I have LeSean McCoy, Forte, Blunt & Wells as my other RBs)
2. Andre Johnson & Kitna for Brees and G. Jennings. I declined this as I would probably drop Kitna anyhow and Jennings actually has more TDs than Johnson. I may counter with Brees for A. Johnson straight up. My WRs are Jennings, Bowe, S. Smith (CAR), Garcon.

Thoughts??
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:46 AM
 
7,376 posts, read 12,879,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSoxFanGoingWest View Post
Question for you all. I was offered several trades today. The reason: I have Vick and Brees as my QBs. Someone in my league dropped Vick the week of his bye so I snatched him up. Here's my question, I'd like to get your thoughts on the trades.

1. David Garrard and Ray Rice for either Vick or Brees. (I have LeSean McCoy, Forte, Blunt & Wells as my other RBs)
2. Andre Johnson & Kitna for Brees and G. Jennings. I declined this as I would probably drop Kitna anyhow and Jennings actually has more TDs than Johnson. I may counter with Brees for A. Johnson straight up. My WRs are Jennings, Bowe, S. Smith (CAR), Garcon.

Thoughts??

No reason to hold on to 2 elite QBs at this point. I suppose it depends on how many players you can start. if you have a flex option for RB/WR or can start 3 RB;s then id probably take the trade. You seem a bit week at RB with blunt and wells as your third option and Forte is good but wouldnt it be nice to have another RB who touches the ball 20+ times a game like ray rice :P

At this point id probably trade away brees instead of vick. Vick is just too hot right now and there is no subtitute for a QB who can get rushing yards and rushing TDS. In most leagues passing TDS only count for 4 and rushing TDS count for 6 so that is a big advantage having vick.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,381,683 times
Reputation: 7083
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSoxFanGoingWest View Post
Question for you all. I was offered several trades today. The reason: I have Vick and Brees as my QBs. Someone in my league dropped Vick the week of his bye so I snatched him up. Here's my question, I'd like to get your thoughts on the trades.

1. David Garrard and Ray Rice for either Vick or Brees. (I have LeSean McCoy, Forte, Blunt & Wells as my other RBs)
2. Andre Johnson & Kitna for Brees and G. Jennings. I declined this as I would probably drop Kitna anyhow and Jennings actually has more TDs than Johnson. I may counter with Brees for A. Johnson straight up. My WRs are Jennings, Bowe, S. Smith (CAR), Garcon.

Thoughts??

I think you're right to counter with a heads-up Brees/Johnson trade.

You're probably as well off with McCoy/Blunt and Gore as you would be with Ray Rice and any of the three (why is Beanie still on your roster? Draft him too high like I did?) so I'm not sure the first trade makes sense. You would just be improving another team and breaking even or slightly less than even for yourself.

Another thing that I would consider: Your team is probably good enough to make the playoffs, right? What if Vick gets injured down the stretch and you traded Brees away? If that happens, I would much rather have given him away for Andre Johnson than for Ray Rice and Garrard (who has inflated numbers right now because everyone looks like Peyton Manning against the Texans).

Last edited by jimboburnsy; 11-17-2010 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,893 posts, read 3,520,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I think you're right to counter with a heads-up Brees/Johnson trade.

You're probably as well off with McCoy/Blunt and Gore as you would be with Ray Rice and any of the three (why is Beanie still on your roster? Draft him too high like I did?) so I'm not sure the first trade makes sense. You would just be improving another team and breaking even or slightly less than even for yourself.

Another thing that I would consider: Your team is probably good enough to make the playoffs, right? What if Vick gets injured down the stretch and you traded Brees away? If that happens, I would much rather have given him away for Andre Johnson than for Ray Rice and Garrard (who has inflated numbers right now because everyone looks like Peyton Manning against the Texans).
Thanks for the input. I tend to agree with you. My team has been playing pretty well the last few weeks and I am nervous about an injury to Vick right at playoff time. Rice hasn't had solid enough output. The other issue that I didn't mention is the guy that offered the Garrard/Rice trade is currently leading my division and I'd face him in the playoffs. I know Brees would come back to bite me.

I was high on Beanie at the draft and took him as my 3rd RB (I think.) I keep thinking he is going to get healthy. I've had roster space but I am in the process of purging guys I don't really need for the back-ups of my starters.

Thanks again for the input.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,381,683 times
Reputation: 7083
Alright: What do you guys think about Brandon Marshall (vs. Chicago), Pierre Garcon (vs. New England) or Wes Welker (obviously, vs. Indianapolis)?

This is pickling my noodle a bit. Three guys who have been underachieving, any one of which can blow up at any given time and total uncertainty about who to start...

I'm rolling with Vick, Dez Bryant, T.O., Peyton Hillis, Maurice Jones Drew, Dustin Keller, *a kicker* and probably Chicago, maybe Kansas City and the third WR spot is a toss up. If I win this week I'm virtually locked for a playoff bid. If I lose I'm basically welcomed to the consolation bracket.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,381,683 times
Reputation: 7083
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Alright: What do you guys think about Brandon Marshall (vs. Chicago), Pierre Garcon (vs. New England) or Wes Welker (obviously, vs. Indianapolis)?

This is pickling my noodle a bit. Three guys who have been underachieving, any one of which can blow up at any given time and total uncertainty about who to start...

I'm rolling with Vick, Dez Bryant, T.O., Peyton Hillis, Maurice Jones Drew, Dustin Keller, *a kicker* and probably Chicago, maybe Kansas City and the third WR spot is a toss up. If I win this week I'm virtually locked for a playoff bid. If I lose I'm basically welcomed to the consolation bracket.
So Brandon Marshall seems to be telling me that I should stop having all this angst about benching him. Glad I didn't take a leap of faith last night. The "hunch" that he's going to blow up isn't going away, but neither are the sub 5 point performances. I think he's dead to me.

Also, really glad I didn't start KC defense. The Bears did a nice job.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:48 AM
 
7,376 posts, read 12,879,231 times
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Garcon is a good play even though he hasnt really done anything yet this year. But as long as collie is sidelined he will have a good shot to score some points. Not only that but they play NE which always wind up being a shootout. The same could be said for wes welker but he hasnt seen many targets this year because of the way they are targeting tight ends this year.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: 3219'03.7"N 10643'55.9"W
8,114 posts, read 17,318,097 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
So Brandon Marshall seems to be telling me that I should stop having all this angst about benching him. Glad I didn't take a leap of faith last night. The "hunch" that he's going to blow up isn't going away, but neither are the sub 5 point performances. I think he's dead to me.

Also, really glad I didn't start KC defense. The Bears did a nice job.
I also benched Marshall, Jimbo. I agree with you, he's almost on the Steve Smith (Carolina) level right now, who I just cut. The worst part is I also drafted Randy Moss. He hasn't been much better!
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