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Old 12-06-2011, 12:08 PM
 
16,532 posts, read 20,994,530 times
Reputation: 47991

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I'm going to cut Jim Schwartz some slack here.

Having a season going 0-16 is brutal on a club, it's fans, and to a certain extent its community. It was only three years previous that the Detroit Lions had to suffer an indignity such as this.

They were however not the only club to suffer through an abysmal season like that season. In the last half century only two other clubs went through the same ordeal with a totally different circumstance that both shared. They were expansion clubs. One club had a head coach who was a media's darling who cracked one liners during a 14 game shellacking. In two seasons time that head coach would have his team in the NFC Championship. The coach? John McKay, head coach of the Tampa bay Buccaneers. The other didn't necessarily lose all their games but didn't win any at all, finishing their 1960 season with an 0-11-1 record. That coach went on to win 2 super bowls, take his club to 20 consecutive winning seasons (an NFL record that still stands 25 years after the fact), and is regarded, by me anyway, as one of the 5 best coaches in the history of the National Football League. The club? The Dallas Cowboys. The head coach? Tom Landry.

Back in the dark ages, clubs who experienced major changes in the front office or the head coach or a starting quarterback were given a little bit more time to develop their chance for success. These days are totally different; it's win real soon or else.

Detroit's 0-16 record in the 2008 season is different than the two above clubs. Way different. The Buccaneers and the Cowboys initial season were expected to be lousy, because that's what expansion teams face. Detroit on the other hand had a 2007 season that looked for the first time since Barry Sanders last few seasons with the club that there was hope. I remember when my Broncos went into Ford Field and got shellacked 44-7. I felt at that time that the Lions fortunes were turning for the better, and for a time they were. They finished that season 7-9. I believe that optimism carried over to 2008. And in the preseason they went 4-0. Then the bottom dropped out. And for the record from what different statistic sites I looked at (and i believe the Elias Sports Bureau could back up this claim) is that statistically speaking it was the worst season number wise an NFL club could have. Does Rod Marinelli wish he could have done things differently to avoid a train wreck like this? Absolutely. No NFL head coach wants to be known as the guy who couldn't even win a game for the season. No one.

Coupled that with the fact that Detroit has been a proud franchise going back to the NFL's earliest history. They won three NFL Championships in the 1950's, and if it wasn't for Vince Lombardi's Green Bay Packers, I believe they could have won a couple more, particularly from 1961 to maybe 1964. Having to endure years after years of futility is a situation no NFL club would want to endure. And the fans? That's even worse, given Detroit's financial problems and the fact that American media doesn't mind piling on negative publicity on a city with lots of problems that go back years, maybe decades.

I agree with Yaz. Yes, Schartz has quite a bit of stuff going on in a negative manner here, including some of his own. Can this club still make the playoffs? Yes. Will they? I sincerely hope they can. I don't believe massive personnel shakeups will do any good here. Still, Jim Schwartz needs to reign in the players behavior and also work on a couple of his own shortcomings. I think he can. Just my two cents.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 12-06-2011 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,368,561 times
Reputation: 3070
Women in Ndamukong Suh of Detroit Lions' car say he hid their injuries - ESPN
Seems like something shady was going on...
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA and Washington, DC
23,653 posts, read 33,472,314 times
Reputation: 32369
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
I'm going to cut Jim Schwartz some slack here.

Having a season going 0-16 is brutal on a club, it's fans, and to a certain extent its community. It was only three years previous that the Detroit Lions had to suffer an indignity such as this.

They were however not the only club to suffer through an abysmal season like that season. In the last half century only two other clubs went through the same ordeal with a totally different circumstance that both shared. They were expansion clubs. One club had a head coach who was a media's darling who cracked one liners during a 14 game shellacking. In two seasons time that head coach would have his team in the NFC Championship. The coach? John McKay, head coach of the Tampa bay Buccaneers. The other didn't necessarily lose all their games but didn't win any at all, finishing their 1960 season with an 0-11-1 record. That coach went on to win 2 super bowls, take his club to 20 consecutive winning seasons (an NFL record that still stands 25 years after the fact), and is regarded, by me anyway, as one of the 5 best coaches in the history of the National Football League. The club? The Dallas Cowboys. The head coach? Tom Landry.

Back in the dark ages, clubs who experienced major changes in the front office or the head coach or a starting quarterback were given a little bit more time to develop their chance for success. These days are totally different; it's win real soon or else.

Detroit's 0-16 record in the 2008 season is different than the two above clubs. Way different. The Buccaneers and the Cowboys initial season were expected to be lousy, because that's what expansion teams face. Detroit on the other hand had a 2007 season that looked for the first time since Barry Sanders last few seasons with the club that there was hope. I remember when my Broncos went into Ford Field and got shellacked 44-7. I felt at that time that the Lions fortunes were turning for the better, and for a time they were. They finished that season 7-9. I believe that optimism carried over to 2008. And in the preseason they went 4-0. Then the bottom dropped out. And for the record from what different statistic sites I looked at (and i believe the Elias Sports Bureau could back up this claim) is that statistically speaking it was the worst season number wise an NFL club could have. Does Rod Marinelli wish he could have done things differently to avoid a train wreck like this? Absolutely. No NFL head coach wants to be known as the guy who couldn't even win a game for the season. No one.

Coupled that with the fact that Detroit has been a proud franchise going back to the NFL's earliest history. They won three NFL Championships in the 1950's, and if it wasn't for Vince Lombardi's Green Bay Packers, I believe they could have won a couple more, particularly from 1961 to maybe 1964. Having to endure years after years of futility is a situation no NFL club would want to endure. And the fans? That's even worse, given Detroit's financial problems and the fact that American media doesn't mind piling on negative publicity on a city with lots of problems that go back years, maybe decades.

I agree with Yaz. Yes, Schartz has quite a bit of stuff going on in a negative manner here, including some of his own. Can this club still make the playoffs? Yes. Will they? I sincerely hope they can. I don't believe massive personnel shakeups will do any good here. Still, Jim Schwartz needs to reign in the players behavior and also work on a couple of his own shortcomings. I think he can. Just my two cents.
I agree with every word. Schwartz had a job on his hands no coach had ever had to face. He has brought the Lions back to respectability in a short timeframe. However he needs to get control of his locker room. One thing I think would really benefit the Lions is a loud seasoned veteran leader ala Brian Dawkins, Ray Lewis, etc. That type of player would help the Lions find maturity quickly.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,724 posts, read 11,559,537 times
Reputation: 12484
I think that is a very strong point. Give some sesoned veterans some time to talk to the team before they go out on the field, during halftime and after the games, hard thing for coaches to do but I do think it would be a positive move.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:47 AM
YAZ
 
Location: Phoenix,AZ
7,078 posts, read 11,857,152 times
Reputation: 6298
I'm surprised that the Lions are in the playoff hunt this late in the season.

With all of their shortcomings (attitude, professionalism, etc.) we can still see the talent that is on this team. Believe it or not, they're quite deep in the QB position, even more deep with their receivers, and their defense can be outstanding at times.

I realize that the schedule was somewhat "soft" for the beginning of the season, but when they played teams like the Packers and the Saints, they hung pretty tough until their composure ran out.

I don't think anyone can deny that the Lions had a chance of winning those games. Remember, Coach Schwartz is still a young 'un when it comes to head coaching. In a year or two, the Lions will be in the hunt for the division title.

P.S.

When Mikel LeShoure gets healthy......look out.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:16 PM
YAZ
 
Location: Phoenix,AZ
7,078 posts, read 11,857,152 times
Reputation: 6298
whew......




Escaped with a win.

8-5 so far and guaranteed to not have a losing season this year.


All of you onlookers 'round here.....please be quiet.

This is a big deal for us Lions' fans.

It's almost like winning a Super Bowl.

But we wouldn't know that feeling.

Raiders next.

On the road.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,724 posts, read 11,559,537 times
Reputation: 12484
Packers are killing the Raiders today. I was surprised that Vikings closed in on the score, thought they might pull it off.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:13 PM
 
21,581 posts, read 11,635,875 times
Reputation: 12319
Man, that was a clear facemask on Webb at the end. Should have stopped the clock and given the Vikes a 1st and goal. The Lions really lucked out.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
4,854 posts, read 6,372,030 times
Reputation: 5800
Winning ugly is still winning. Hallelujah!
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:43 AM
YAZ
 
Location: Phoenix,AZ
7,078 posts, read 11,857,152 times
Reputation: 6298
The Lions' secondary is so beat up that they had their 5th wide receiver playing in a defensive back position.

I was waiting for Coach Schwartz to put Drew Stanton in as a free safety.

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