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Old 11-19-2010, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Decatur
461 posts, read 924,966 times
Reputation: 251

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvez View Post
If Vick did not have freakish natural athletic ability he would have been a career criminal, and probably would be in jail right now for dealing drugs or armed robbery. Great role model.
This is quite a jump. People who accept dog fighting as being ok in their culture or social circles, do not necessarily condone armed robbery or dealing drugs.

Many of us condone torturing chickens and calves by buying and eating them and turn a blind eye to what goes on in our food industry. Cultures place importance and significance on the animal hierarchy differently in all parts of the world. I am not condoning dog fighting by any stretch of the imagination, I think it's a horrible industry. But let's face it, unless you are a vegetarian or exclusive free range buyer, you are directly contributing to the torturing of animals in your own special way. Now you may say, but dogs are more intelligent, special, etc than cows or chickens!! But that's your opinion (and mine actually), and does not make you any more sophisticated than other cultures. We put down dogs on the daily at shelters which indicates that even in the US as a whole we don't place the value of canine life as high as we would like to think.

 
Old 11-19-2010, 06:39 AM
 
13,579 posts, read 22,033,104 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakhurstlauren View Post
This is quite a jump. People who accept dog fighting as being ok in their culture or social circles, do not necessarily condone armed robbery or dealing drugs.

Many of us condone torturing chickens and calves by buying and eating them and turn a blind eye to what goes on in our food industry. Cultures place importance and significance on the animal hierarchy differently in all parts of the world. I am not condoning dog fighting by any stretch of the imagination, I think it's a horrible industry. But let's face it, unless you are a vegetarian or exclusive free range buyer, you are directly contributing to the torturing of animals in your own special way. Now you may say, but dogs are more intelligent, special, etc than cows or chickens!! But that's your opinion (and mine actually), and does not make you any more sophisticated than other cultures. We put down dogs on the daily at shelters which indicates that even in the US as a whole we don't place the value of canine life as high as we would like to think.
Beautifully said.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 06:52 AM
 
479 posts, read 580,185 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
making it a race thing when no one else even suggested it. how childish
You need to re-read the previous posts.

Maybe this will help you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
....Vick did his time in jail and repented in a way that one can resonably expect from inflicted pain and death to an animal. There are industries out there like Greyhound & Horse racing that are just as abusive and then some, but because their money is greener and hands paler, will never see judgement before man's law.
So hopefully now you see I was just responding to the above poster's racial absurdities.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 07:03 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,080 posts, read 35,035,900 times
Reputation: 15246
To quote Tennessee Williams, "Deliberate cruelty is unforgivable."
And please spare me the argument that certain behavior is acceptable in certain social circles. If this kind of behavior is in your mind perfectly fine, then you have lost your humanity.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Decatur
461 posts, read 924,966 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
To quote Tennessee Williams, "Deliberate cruelty is unforgivable."
And please spare me the argument that certain behavior is acceptable in certain social circles. If this kind of behavior is in your mind perfectly fine, then you have lost your humanity.
It's easy to say that, and yet our culture condones violence and cruelty in all kinds of circles. It's ok to clap and cheer at MMA when people are getting their faces beat to a bloody pulp in front of an audience of millions. And it's ok to torture animals as long as we're eating them, right? It's a hypocritical stance at best.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 07:11 AM
 
479 posts, read 580,185 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakhurstlauren View Post
This is quite a jump. People who accept dog fighting as being ok in their culture or social circles, do not necessarily condone armed robbery or dealing drugs.

Many of us condone torturing chickens and calves by buying and eating them and turn a blind eye to what goes on in our food industry. Cultures place importance and significance on the animal hierarchy differently in all parts of the world. I am not condoning dog fighting by any stretch of the imagination, I think it's a horrible industry. But let's face it, unless you are a vegetarian or exclusive free range buyer, you are directly contributing to the torturing of animals in your own special way. Now you may say, but dogs are more intelligent, special, etc than cows or chickens!! But that's your opinion (and mine actually), and does not make you any more sophisticated than other cultures. We put down dogs on the daily at shelters which indicates that even in the US as a whole we don't place the value of canine life as high as we would like to think.
People who engage in cruelty at their own hand usually have LOTS of other issues. Ask any psychiatrist or police officer.

Vick was not eating the dead dogs. The food industry does not force the animals to fight each other to the death. This makes it a bit different Id say. Cows or chickens are raised to be our food. Vick's dogs were for fighting and killing other dogs. There is absolutely no comparison, none whatsoever.

Hunting is allowed because the meat is consumed and its an activity that humans have engaged in since our very beginning. We are the top of the food chain. I guess it seems terribly unfair to you, but the dominant culture makes the rules. Therefore you either abide by them or face the consequences.

Dogs are "put down" at shelters because there is a lack of financial means for caring for them. It is in fact an act of mercy and done in the least cruel way possible. Just try going to a pet shelter and telling the employees what they do is on the same page as what Vick did. You will get an interesting response.

All the above said, it basically boils down to that most blacks will support their fellow blacks pretty much no matter what, especially if perceived under attack by "whitey". Whether its OJ, Marion Barry, Michael Vick, Charlie Rangel or some random thug, if whitey is on the case the majority of blacks will defend the person as victims of white cultural oppression / racism. This wont ever change.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 07:16 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,080 posts, read 35,035,900 times
Reputation: 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakhurstlauren View Post
It's easy to say that, and yet our culture condones violence and cruelty in all kinds of circles. It's ok to clap and cheer at MMA when people are getting their faces beat to a bloody pulp in front of an audience of millions. And it's ok to torture animals as long as we're eating them, right? It's a hypocritical stance at best.
Lauren, the points that you make here are very good (as usual). I hate cruelty in all of its' forms. However, I think the difference in the two scenarios that you present here are that in one case you have a willing participant that has consented to subject himself to violence and knows the possible consequence; in the other, an innocent animal is being forced into it.
As far as your point about certain practices in the meatpacking industry, particularly in the poultry business, yes; they are indeed abhorrent. That's why I'm a free-range gal.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 08:27 AM
 
281 posts, read 531,233 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbear View Post
People who engage in cruelty at their own hand usually have LOTS of other issues. Ask any psychiatrist or police officer.

Vick was not eating the dead dogs. The food industry does not force the animals to fight each other to the death. This makes it a bit different Id say. Cows or chickens are raised to be our food. Vick's dogs were for fighting and killing other dogs. There is absolutely no comparison, none whatsoever.

Hunting is allowed because the meat is consumed and its an activity that humans have engaged in since our very beginning. We are the top of the food chain. I guess it seems terribly unfair to you, but the dominant culture makes the rules. Therefore you either abide by them or face the consequences.

Dogs are "put down" at shelters because there is a lack of financial means for caring for them. It is in fact an act of mercy and done in the least cruel way possible. Just try going to a pet shelter and telling the employees what they do is on the same page as what Vick did. You will get an interesting response.

All the above said, it basically boils down to that most blacks will support their fellow blacks pretty much no matter what, especially if perceived under attack by "whitey". Whether its OJ, Marion Barry, Michael Vick, Charlie Rangel or some random thug, if whitey is on the case the majority of blacks will defend the person as victims of white cultural oppression / racism. This wont ever change.
Great post and so true.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Decatur
461 posts, read 924,966 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbear View Post
People who engage in cruelty at their own hand usually have LOTS of other issues. Ask any psychiatrist or police officer.
You assume Vick has these "other" "issues" and that these types of "issues" are incurable? I won't bother wasting my time asking anyone about such a vague concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbear View Post
Vick was not eating the dead dogs. The food industry does not force the animals to fight each other to the death. This makes it a bit different Id say. Cows or chickens are raised to be our food. Vick's dogs were for fighting and killing other dogs. There is absolutely no comparison, none whatsoever.
The food industry does just as many horrendous things actually. There's enough info readily available on the Internet with a quick google search.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbear View Post
Hunting is allowed because the meat is consumed and its an activity that humans have engaged in since our very beginning. We are the top of the food chain. I guess it seems terribly unfair to you, but the dominant culture makes the rules. Therefore you either abide by them or face the consequences.
Who said anything about hunting being wrong? And what dominant culture? That was my entire point that cultures view the animal hierarchy differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbear View Post
Dogs are "put down" at shelters because there is a lack of financial means for caring for them. It is in fact an act of mercy and done in the least cruel way possible. Just try going to a pet shelter and telling the employees what they do is on the same page as what Vick did. You will get an interesting response.
Exactly, which means by and large people are still very uneducated about how to care for animals properly. Again you are assuming things about my post I did not say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbear View Post
All the above said, it basically boils down to that most blacks will support their fellow blacks pretty much no matter what, especially if perceived under attack by "whitey". Whether its OJ, Marion Barry, Michael Vick, Charlie Rangel or some random thug, if whitey is on the case the majority of blacks will defend the person as victims of white cultural oppression / racism. This wont ever change.
What a small world you live in where everything is so very black and white (pun intended). I am not really sure that you were talking about me specifically, but I am not even black.
 
Old 11-19-2010, 09:31 AM
 
1,301 posts, read 1,908,383 times
Reputation: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakhurstlauren View Post
You assume Vick has these "other" "issues" and that these types of "issues" are incurable? I won't bother wasting my time asking anyone about such a vague concept.


The food industry does just as many horrendous things actually. There's enough info readily available on the Internet with a quick google search.


Who said anything about hunting being wrong? And what dominant culture? That was my entire point that cultures view the animal hierarchy differently.

Exactly, which means by and large people are still very uneducated about how to care for animals properly. Again you are assuming things about my post I did not say.


What a small world you live in where everything is so very black and white (pun intended). I am not really sure that you were talking about me specifically, but I am not even black.


He may be over reaching a little but MANY blacks do have a herd mentality when it comes to standing up for a fellow "brotha" regardless of how detestable what he has done may be, ie OJ Simpson. I just dont see any other race or group of minorities that run to the defense of their race as vigorously as blacks do. The whole Michael Vick saga showed that and I believe that is what Bullbear was trying to say.
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