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View Poll Results: Will Tim Tebow become an elite NFL star QB?
Probably so. 10 16.95%
Probably not. 34 57.63%
Pointless to speculate. 15 25.42%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2010, 02:53 PM
 
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No way. Has any Florida QB ever been? The system at Florida makes these guys look great, then they get the NFL wakeup call. The guy is average like so many others coming out of College, but since he's likable, their seems to be this movement where everyone wants him to succeed. I don't necessarily wish failure on the guy but he doesn't have the all the tools to be an Elite NFL QB. A serviceable backup? yes.

Highly touted Florida QB's that are now in the "where are they now?" file.

Rex Grossman
Chris Leak
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Matthews
(Coming Soon: Tim Tebow)

There are 7 others but I don't recall how touted they were coming out of college.

 
Old 11-19-2010, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,169,679 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankhharu View Post
No way. Has any Florida QB ever been? The system at Florida makes these guys look great, then they get the NFL wakeup call. The guy is average like so many others coming out of College, but since he's likable, their seems to be this movement where everyone wants him to succeed. I don't necessarily wish failure on the guy but he doesn't have the all the tools to be an Elite NFL QB. A serviceable backup? yes.

Highly touted Florida QB's that are now in the "where are they now?" file.

Rex Grossman
Chris Leak
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Matthews
(Coming Soon: Tim Tebow)

There are 7 others but I don't recall how touted they were coming out of college.
The problem with this is that the system isn't the same as it was when those guys were playing. Steve Spurrier ran the Run N' Shoot offense which, with the exception of the short time Spurrier spent there, hasn't been used in the NFL since the mid 90's and only by a couple teams even at it's peak, and Ron Zook ran a Veer Option offense which hasn't been used in NFL for decades. Urban Meyer's offense is a spread option system which has taken hold in the NFL over the last several years. It's what Josh McDaniels modeled his highly successful offenses off of, highly influenced Sean Payton's offense and is now being slowly implemented in Seattle.

The only player off of that list who played under Meyer is Chris Leak, and he was far from highly touted. He went undrafted, mainly because he was way too short (5'11) to be an NFL quarterback.

Also, what makes you think that Tebow doesn't have the tools to play in the NFL. His size, arm strength, accuracy and intelligence are all well above average for the NFL.

Last edited by McBain II; 11-19-2010 at 04:18 PM..
 
Old 11-25-2010, 07:41 PM
 
2,478 posts, read 4,873,093 times
Reputation: 4489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
The problem with this is that the system isn't the same as it was when those guys were playing. Steve Spurrier ran the Run N' Shoot offense which, with the exception of the short time Spurrier spent there, hasn't been used in the NFL since the mid 90's and only by a couple teams even at it's peak, and Ron Zook ran a Veer Option offense which hasn't been used in NFL for decades. Urban Meyer's offense is a spread option system which has taken hold in the NFL over the last several years. It's what Josh McDaniels modeled his highly successful offenses off of, highly influenced Sean Payton's offense and is now being slowly implemented in Seattle.

The only player off of that list who played under Meyer is Chris Leak, and he was far from highly touted. He went undrafted, mainly because he was way too short (5'11) to be an NFL quarterback.

Also, what makes you think that Tebow doesn't have the tools to play in the NFL. His size, arm strength, accuracy and intelligence are all well above average for the NFL.
Spread offense is just as bad if not worse than Spurriers fun n gun offense. The spread offense makes these guys look better than they are. Granted there are a couple of exceptions (Brees), but it's not the norm. See Alex Smith, Vince Young, Cade Mcnown, Andre Ware, David Klinger, Heath Shuler, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, etc etc. Spread option is a system, and Tim Tebow is another just like these guys. So what makes me think he doesn't have the tools? He's lacks pure passing ability. And he does not have arm strenght, thats even backed up by Phil Simms: "‘It’s about the arm. Let’s just get over that. . . . It’s not a powerful arm, by no means. It’s not quick. He’s just really got to control the football better. He doesn’t control it as well as he should to really be a top-flight NFL quarterback, but that can change."
 
Old 11-25-2010, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,169,679 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankhharu View Post
Spread offense is just as bad if not worse than Spurriers fun n gun offense. The spread offense makes these guys look better than they are. Granted there are a couple of exceptions (Brees), but it's not the norm. See Alex Smith, Vince Young, Cade Mcnown, Andre Ware, David Klinger, Heath Shuler, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, etc etc. Spread option is a system, and Tim Tebow is another just like these guys.
I'm sorry, but this just makes absolutely zero sense. There is nothing about the spread offense that "makes these guys look better". It might make them look better statistically because of the nature of the passing routes and progressions, but in no way shape or form does the spread offense hide deficiencies in a quarterback, especially at the pro level.

Quote:
So what makes me think he doesn't have the tools? He's lacks pure passing ability. And he does not have arm strenght, thats even backed up by Phil Simms: "‘It’s about the arm. Let’s just get over that. . . . It’s not a powerful arm, by no means. It’s not quick. He’s just really got to control the football better. He doesn’t control it as well as he should to really be a top-flight NFL quarterback, but that can change."
Several problems here.

1) Phil Simms should do a little bit more research as Tim Tebow has a very strong arm. NFL Draft Scout called it "prototypical".

Quote:
Arm Strength: Prototypical arm strength. Can make every NFL throw. Can zip short and intermediate passes and flashes touch and trajectory on deeper throws. Only occasionally asked to throw true deep balls in this offense, but has the arm strength to do so.
Tim Tebow, Florida, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

2) Arm strength is ****ing overrated. I could cite you tons of examples of guys with cannons for throwing arms who fizzled out in the NFL. Meanwhile, the two best quarterbacks currently in the NFL (Brady and Manning) have very average arm strength which Tebow undoubtedly surpasses. In Brady's case, his arm was so weak that it dropped him several rounds in the draft.

3) Even if Tebow's arm strength was not as good as it is, it could still be improved. Contrary to popular belief, arm strength is not some inherent ability you either have or don't have. It comes from core strength and proper throwing mechanics. This is what McDaniels did with Brady and now Orton. He put them on an exercise regime which improved their core strength and then modified their throwing motion to take maximum advantage of their range and improve the accuracy of their deep passes. Jon Gruden helped Tebow make the change before the draft and now McDaniels can further refine it.
 
Old 11-26-2010, 10:45 AM
 
20,920 posts, read 39,218,156 times
Reputation: 19213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
Tim Tebow may be the greatest college player of all-time. How his career will end in the NFL remains to be seen. Going into the draft I was thinking he could end up as a jack-of-all trades kinda guy: tight end, goal line back, qb. Denver could do some interesting things with an athlete like Tebow. When all is said and done, I don't think he'll be thought of as great but he'll retire respected and a good player.
The question is why has Denver NOT played Tebow, except maybe a half dozen plays. Why? Excuses about not injuring the "franchise" player holds no logic for me. He's not a baby. He's a superbly fit, talented, PRO football player who is ready, willing and able to step up and play. He should start the next several games; maybe all six remaining games. So what if he blows a game by making some mistakes, it is of no consequence now that the season is lost for Denver. He MUST PLAY to achieve any greatness.

I've added a poll to this thread to make it easier to determine overall thoughts on the topic.
Chicago fans, remember, vote early - vote often.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 11-26-2010 at 10:54 AM..
 
Old 11-26-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,367,818 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike from back east View Post
the question is why has denver not played tebow, except maybe a half dozen plays. Why? Excuses about not injuring the "franchise" player holds no logic for me. He's not a baby. He's a superbly fit, talented, pro football player who is ready, willing and able to step up and play. He should start the next several games; maybe all six remaining games. So what if he blows a game by making some mistakes, it is of no consequence now that the season is lost for denver. He must play to achieve any greatness.
do...not...question...mcdaniels...

Seriously tho, until he screws up a QB, he deserves to have the benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by Orangeish; 11-26-2010 at 03:22 PM..
 
Old 11-26-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,169,679 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
The question is why has Denver NOT played Tebow, except maybe a half dozen plays. Why? Excuses about not injuring the "franchise" player holds no logic for me. He's not a baby. He's a superbly fit, talented, PRO football player who is ready, willing and able to step up and play. He should start the next several games; maybe all six remaining games. So what if he blows a game by making some mistakes, it is of no consequence now that the season is lost for Denver. He MUST PLAY to achieve any greatness.

I've added a poll to this thread to make it easier to determine overall thoughts on the topic.
Chicago fans, remember, vote early - vote often.
Tebow isn't going to be getting significant playing time because he is simply not ready. He needs a year of digesting an NFL offense and programming his new throwing motion to muscle memory. You throw him into the fray too soon and you run a very high risk of having him revert back to his old habits.

Another thing to consider is that you run the effect of causing a split in the locker room. Mike Shanahan did this in 1999 when he benched Brister for Brian Griese. This is the last thing we need now. If you feel Tebow is ready, then you can trade Orton in the offseason and everyone will know that Tebow is the man to get behind. Much smoother transition for a young team.
 
Old 11-26-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,269 posts, read 5,790,876 times
Reputation: 3207
I was surprised to read some of this because I didn't know ANYONE thought he might be an elite-level QB. Nearly every NFL draft guru had question marks on top of their head when Denver took him inexplicably with their 1st round draft pick. He might produce average results (if he's ever a full time QB at all), but he's not a good passer (reminds me a lot of Matt Leinart), and although he has some wheels (and a big body), he's not Michael Vick; he's not even Daunte Culpepper. Maybe a mixture of Culpepper and Leinart is as best I could compare him based on what I see. For his sake, I think he would like to be more the former than the letter, but even then, I never considered Culpepper an elite-level QB and if he was, it was ultimately short-lived.
 
Old 11-26-2010, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,169,679 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros View Post
I was surprised to read some of this because I didn't know ANYONE thought he might be an elite-level QB. Nearly every NFL draft guru had question marks on top of their head when Denver took him inexplicably with their 1st round draft pick.
The problem is the "draft gurus" on ESPN are bozos like Mel Kiper who really have no credibility. Mike Mayock is the best one out there for several years now and he was high on Tebow and even said pre-draft that he would likely go in the first round.

Mike Mayock says Tebow a first-rounder, Clausen could fall - Dan Patrick.com

Jon Gruden was also very high on Tebow as well.
 
Old 11-26-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,269 posts, read 5,790,876 times
Reputation: 3207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
The problem is the "draft gurus" on ESPN are bozos like Mel Kiper who really have no credibility. Mike Mayock is the best one out there for several years now and he was high on Tebow and even said pre-draft that he would likely go in the first round.

Mike Mayock says Tebow a first-rounder, Clausen could fall - Dan Patrick.com

Jon Gruden was also very high on Tebow as well.
I'm by no means a professional scout - but I've been watching football intently for over 20 years. I don't see any reason to believe Tim Tebow could be an elite-level QB. I'll respectfully disagree with Mike Mayock and Jon Gruden.

My question: what do you see in him that relates to the way some of the greats of NFL history play the position? John Elway, Steve Young, Bret Favre - or uber modern QB's like Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Aaron Rodgers - is there anything about him that reminds you of any of the others?

I'm an Ohio State fan (no, not why I'm dissing Tebow lol), but we're a school known for producing system quarterbacks that tend not to have a shot in the pros. We have really talented offensive lines, good solid ball catchers, and we're deep at HB. Our defense is usually top notch. We win games because of our entire team - certainly not because of one position and we just don't typically get those stellar sure #1 QBs. Florida, minus being deep at HB, tends to have a really fast defense, a strong offensive line, and talented, speedy WRs and TENDS not to have QBs that would make a big leap at the next level. Why is Tebow different? Because to me, he seems like the epitome of a college QB. (And there's nothing wrong with that - I would have given up a lot of things to have played any sport at my alma mater - Akron - so imagine a guy who wins the Heisman at UF, and wins 2 national titles? Guy is a legend, but that doesn't mean he's an elite QB. If I were an NFL guy, I would have looked at drafting someone like him around rounds 3-5, not round 1. He's just not a QB in the same way Brad Smith or Josh Cribbs - although valuable pieces - just aren't full-time QBs)

Just my $0.02
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