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View Poll Results: Who will take everything?
New England Patriots 15 46.88%
Pittsburgh Steelers 6 18.75%
Indianapolis Colts 0 0%
Kansas City Chiefs 0 0%
Baltimore Ravens 1 3.13%
New York Jets 0 0%
Atlanta Falcons 4 12.50%
Chicago Bears 1 3.13%
Philadelphia Eagles 1 3.13%
Seattle Seahawks 1 3.13%
New Orleans Saints 0 0%
Green Bay Packers 3 9.38%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2011, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Weehawken, NJ
1,302 posts, read 4,101,207 times
Reputation: 353

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Lets also take a closer look at his victories that Sanchez has "led" his team to.

Last year first round, the Jets beat Cincinatti. The Jets were a much better team, and the Bengals secondary was especially bad. Shon Greene also ran the ball very well that game. The Jets defense also forced multiple turnovers. Sanchez attempted only 18 passes in that game, and he was effective, but it was pretty clear that the running game opened that up. You don't win a game like that without effective running.

Next we have their win over the SD Chargers, who could screw up a cup of coffee when it comes to the post season. The Jets won a close game, their defense was exceptional. Mark Sanchize, his line was 12/23 100 yards for the game

Then we had the AFC title game in which the Jets jumped out to an early lead, but Manning summoned his inner "it" factor (note my sarcasm) and the Colts came back to win. Sanchez had a decent line, with his WRs having a lot of YAC, but he sealed the Jets fate with a late INT. Hardly a good way to end the 4th quarter.

Now this year

The Jets first victory was against the Colts, which as we talked about was basically gift wrapped by a terrible time out call by Caldwell. Sanchize threw for a buck 80 that game.

Then we have the most recent game in which Sanchez deserves credit for making some great late throws, but he still failed to eclipse the 200 yard mark, as the Jets have a very healthy running game.

Of all these games, I would be ok saying there is one instance in which Sanchez was the main cause of the victory--and thats pushing it. I am ok with being high on your team when they are winning, but I think everyone needs to stop acting like Sanchez is an elite QB, whether its in the 1st or 4th quarter.

There is a lot wrong with what you are saying here. First, I have never been and never will be a Jets fan, I am a die hard Steelers fan. Second, I never called Sanchez elite. If you look at my earlier posts I said that Ben is elite and Sanchez is not and that is why I expect the Steelers to win. We started talking about Sanchez in the fourth quarter because someones respose to what I said was that if it they could keep it close into the fourth Sanchez could win them the game, but I personally said I would still take Ben because he is also good in the fourth and he is just a winner period. Third, what do you mean Cincinnati's secondary was bad? They had one of the best secondaries in the league last year. The only reason they didn't have a repeat performance is because of injuries. Fourth, Sanchez didn't have big numbers because he was a rookie and they didn't want to take to many chances and put too much pressure on their young QB.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,926,824 times
Reputation: 1571
@ Dorian, orangeish has a career in politics if whatever hes doing doesn't pan out. And @ orangeish very clever manipulation of statistics to make your point come across. A couple of numbers I found interesting was TD passes were conveniently left out. Also touchdown to interception ratio was completely left out. And probably the most important statistic you left out, passer rating. Why dont you check his passer rating in his career playoff numbers after two years to peyton mannings numbers which is what we were talking about.

To everyone, obviously to orangeish the only number that matters for a QB is yards. Parents teach your kids this, as long as you throw over 300 yards in a game. it doesn't matter how fantastic you're receivers are, whether you won the game, how many td's you threw, or many interceptions you had, you got the most important statistic, yards...

Im done responding to orangeish because similar to starstostripes or whatever his name was, he has no basis for his comments, but he looks for one...

Sanchez numbers (yards aside... lol), are phenomenal for someone whose been in the league for 2 years. And for a QB with experience they are very good numbers as well. Like I said, Ben obviously has proven himself far more than Sanchez has, but come 4th Quarter it is not a slam dunk favorite between Ben and Sanchez...

One more interesting point to note if we're comparing QB competition... Sanchez has faced five teams in his playoff career. Bengals (look up their statistics last year braniac, they were a good team... Chargers (probably weakest competition of them all though still a tough team), Colts (this team last year... enough said), Colts (this year, considered one of the hottest teams coming into the playoffs right behind the Pats), and Pats (hottest team in the league, superbowl favorite, and best record in football). You want to talk about the Colts wins and losses in the playoffs, (always beat their first round opponents, (way to go there, Peyton, (losing record against the Pats in the playoffs), and here was his championship run and aside from the second half in the Pats game in 2006, those numbers weren't even pedestrian, they were flat out garbage... and notice i wont conveniently misinterpret what is said but rather I will quote, numbers don't lie

"Despite three interceptions, Manning completed 30 out of 38 passes as the Colts beat the Kansas City Chiefs in the Wild Card playoff game by a score of 23–8.[111] The following week they were limited to five field goals and no touchdowns, but defeated the Baltimore Ravens, 15–6.[112] In the AFC Championship game against the rival Patriots, the Colts trailed 14–3 when Manning threw an interception that was returned for a TD by Asante Samuel to give New England a 21-3 lead. Manning led the Colts to 32 points in the second half for a 38-34 victory, the final score coming late in the fourth quarter as Manning led the Colts on an 80-yard TD drive to take the lead for the first time in the game. He finished the game with 349 yards passing and two touchdowns (1 rushing). The comeback was the largest deficit ever overcome in a conference championship.[113]
Manning led the Colts to a 29–17 victory over the Chicago Bears in Super Bowl XLI and was voted Super Bowl MVP.[114] Manning, who had been criticized for failing to win big games, exorcised his big-game demons with the win."

You can look up for yourself his numbers during that game, but they really weren't that good at all, and his competition in the superbowl was easier than any competition Sanchez has had to face. Bears had no QB...
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,931 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
There is a lot wrong with what you are saying here. First, I have never been and never will be a Jets fan, I am a die hard Steelers fan. Second, I never called Sanchez elite. If you look at my earlier posts I said that Ben is elite and Sanchez is not and that is why I expect the Steelers to win. We started talking about Sanchez in the fourth quarter because someones respose to what I said was that if it they could keep it close into the fourth Sanchez could win them the game, but I personally said I would still take Ben because he is also good in the fourth and he is just a winner period. Third, what do you mean Cincinnati's secondary was bad? They had one of the best secondaries in the league last year. The only reason they didn't have a repeat performance is because of injuries. Fourth, Sanchez didn't have big numbers because he was a rookie and they didn't want to take to many chances and put too much pressure on their young QB.
Cincy was about middle of the pack statistically last year from a passing defense POV and in that Jets game on the 47 yard completion to Cotchery a defender flat out fell/slipped on the play.

Fwiw, I never said you were a Jets fan. I was responding to more people than just you.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,931 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
@ Dorian, orangeish has a career in politics if whatever hes doing doesn't pan out. And @ orangeish very clever manipulation of statistics to make your point come across. A couple of numbers I found interesting was TD passes were conveniently left out. Also touchdown to interception ratio was completely left out. And probably the most important statistic you left out, passer rating. Why dont you check his passer rating in his career playoff numbers after two years to peyton mannings numbers which is what we were talking about.

To everyone, obviously to orangeish the only number that matters for a QB is yards. Parents teach your kids this, as long as you throw over 300 yards in a game. it doesn't matter how fantastic you're receivers are, whether you won the game, how many td's you threw, or many interceptions you had, you got the most important statistic, yards...

Im done responding to orangeish because similar to starstostripes or whatever his name was, he has no basis for his comments, but he looks for one...

Sanchez numbers (yards aside... lol), are phenomenal for someone whose been in the league for 2 years. And for a QB with experience they are very good numbers as well. Like I said, Ben obviously has proven himself far more than Sanchez has, but come 4th Quarter it is not a slam dunk favorite between Ben and Sanchez...

One more interesting point to note if we're comparing QB competition... Sanchez has faced five teams in his playoff career. Bengals (look up their statistics last year braniac, they were a good team... Chargers (probably weakest competition of them all though still a tough team), Colts (this team last year... enough said), Colts (this year, considered one of the hottest teams coming into the playoffs right behind the Pats), and Pats (hottest team in the league, superbowl favorite, and best record in football). You want to talk about the Colts wins and losses in the playoffs, (always beat their first round opponents, (way to go there, Peyton, (losing record against the Pats in the playoffs), and here was his championship run and aside from the second half in the Pats game in 2006, those numbers weren't even pedestrian, they were flat out garbage... and notice i wont conveniently misinterpret what is said but rather I will quote, numbers don't lie

"Despite three interceptions, Manning completed 30 out of 38 passes as the Colts beat the Kansas City Chiefs in the Wild Card playoff game by a score of 23–8.[111] The following week they were limited to five field goals and no touchdowns, but defeated the Baltimore Ravens, 15–6.[112] In the AFC Championship game against the rival Patriots, the Colts trailed 14–3 when Manning threw an interception that was returned for a TD by Asante Samuel to give New England a 21-3 lead. Manning led the Colts to 32 points in the second half for a 38-34 victory, the final score coming late in the fourth quarter as Manning led the Colts on an 80-yard TD drive to take the lead for the first time in the game. He finished the game with 349 yards passing and two touchdowns (1 rushing). The comeback was the largest deficit ever overcome in a conference championship.[113]
Manning led the Colts to a 29–17 victory over the Chicago Bears in Super Bowl XLI and was voted Super Bowl MVP.[114] Manning, who had been criticized for failing to win big games, exorcised his big-game demons with the win."

You can look up for yourself his numbers during that game, but they really weren't that good at all, and his competition in the superbowl was easier than any competition Sanchez has had to face. Bears had no QB...
Not really sure why you are so hot and bothered. I disagree with your assement of Sanchez, so would a lot of people. Whats the big deal, its a discussion board.

Any statistic in isolation is not a good way to evaluate a QB, whether its TDs, yards, wins, whatever. The point I was trying to make was the Jets have won because of a having efficent performances in all areas of the field, and I felt you were giving Sanchez too much credit. Joe Flacco also had an exceptional playoff record until last week and I would say a lot of the same things about him.

Also, before last game vs the Pats, I am pretty sure (check my numbers I could be wrong) that Sanchez in all those playoff games has thrown a total of 1 4th quarter TD.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,931 times
Reputation: 3070
@anon, since you accuse me of only using some stats, lets post a more complete picture of Sanchizes 2010 stats.

QB rating: 27th in the NFL
Completion %: 29th in NFL
Yds/Att: 26th in the NFL
TD/INT: 17/13
Yds per game: 25th in the NFL

So let me guess, the reason for all this is because he doesn't throw much right?

Total attempts, he ranks 9th in the league with 507.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,926,824 times
Reputation: 1571
wow... once again clever misrepresentation of facts...

can you repeat what we were talking about before?

were we talking about season statistics, cause I didn't think we were but maybe im wrong... @ orangeish im not upset but I just don't like people manipulating facts for their own agenda... you can check the other threads i post on when it comes to politics and crime, im the same exact way and i do get on peoples nerves for exposing them, but Im just here to tell the truth and breakdown what are the facts of what we're talking about. Dont bring up a completely unrelated topic and use that as comparisons... for example, before you only mentioned Sanchez yardage in the playoffs. I broke it down for you and showed you the facts...

Now you're bringing to me, his regular season totals which I have already discussed on here is a reason for why people dont take notice of Sanchez. but then again we weren't talking about regular season were we...

we were talking about 4th quarter performances and overall playoff capability. so i ask you again, read what i write and look up the statistics of what im writing and then tell me im wrong...

okay you have a pen and paper...

Look up this years 4th quarter statistics for Sanchez ... okay thats one

number two, look up his overall postseason numbers... not 4th quarter but overall.
then we can open up this debate again...
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,926,824 times
Reputation: 1571
And Flaccos numbers are nowhere near Sanchez' numbers in the playoffs. Flacco has been a good regular season QB similar to Peyton but come playoff time he is just average in comparison with other Qbs including Sanchez...

The one thing I will give you is that Sanchez team overall has played very well while hes QBing but you still have to win the game, and Sanchez has not only been efficient in the playoffs and 4th quarter but hes also been clutch which is what we're talking about here...
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,931 times
Reputation: 3070
ok 2010-11 post season

QB rating: 7th out of 12 91.6
Tds/INT: 3/1
Yds per game: 10th out of 12 with 192
comp % 60.7. 7th out of 12.

feel free to post any stats I didnt include, from what I can see, I don't see anything that great.

Ill post last years next
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,931 times
Reputation: 3070
last years post season:

QB rating: 7th of 12 at 92.7
TDs/INT: 4/2
Comp %: 10th out of 12 60.3
Yds/game: 9th at 180yards

again, post anything else you feel I missed
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,926,824 times
Reputation: 1571
Read this, it'll explain the hype for this sophomore QB
Sanchez soars to historic heights - Stats & Info Blog - ESPN

Sanchez first postseason numbers and comments

Playoff Performance
Cmp Att Yds TD Int Cmp%Rate
Mark Sanchez – Gm1 12 15 182 1 0 80139.4
Mark Sanchez – Gm2 12 23 100 1 1 52.1760.1
Mark Sanchez – Gm3 17 30 257 2 1 56.66667

So far, among rookie QBs in NFL history, Sanchez has the highest total playoff rating as well as the highest playoff rating in a single game. Although his performance against San Diego was nothing special, he did enough to win. Like Philip Rivers, his counterpart, he only really made one bad decision. In each case, they resulted in interceptions. Unlike Rivers, Sanchez has Darrelle Revis on his team, who made a fantastic play for Rivers’ other interception. We’ll see if Sanchez and the Jets can continue their success, but so far, Sanchez looks like he’s trying to make his claim to best rookie QB to start a playoff game.

Sanchez 2010-11 numbers
Cmp Att Yds TD Int Cmp%Rate
WILD@IND W 17-16 18 31 189 0 1 58.124 62.4
DIV@NE W 28-21 16 25 194 3 0 64.058 127.3

The game against indy was one game removed from him not even throwing a ball because he had gotten clobbered in week 16...

that game aside along with San Diegos game and you have a 2nd year QB who has played inspired football and who has done it against as good a competition as you can get. You throw away Carson Palmers this year because who knows what happened to this guy and these are the names he has played against and beaten

1) Peyton Manning
2) Carson Palmer
3) Philip Rivers
4) Tom Brady

Carson Palmer aside for this year, and these are all top 5 Qbs and last year Palmer was up there. The Jets overall as a team are a major contributing factor to his success that is no question but alls im saying is that time and time again he has done what needs to be done to win games... and that is the mark of a great playoff QB...

and thanks for posting this years 4th quarter statistics... its ok though... we will have this conversation again after the steelers game...

Last edited by anon1; 01-19-2011 at 01:23 PM..
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