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Old 01-11-2012, 10:46 PM
 
Location: southwestern USA
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WakaFlocka

I agree with your breakdown of my post including your assesment of Favres all time standing in nfl history.

I said he was a top 10----and would agree with you more toward number 10 than higher.

I think the Pack indeed could have won a couple more superbowls with better decision making by Favre------Holmgren worked very hard on him to be more selective and in control----it would work for a couple of weeks and than he would revert to gunslinger.

Favre just had the confidence that his cannon could bazooka balls through double teams, and he often paid for it.

I think Pack fans wont miss his antics of the last four or five years----the never ending soap opera of will he or wont he retire. I could understand his anger at being edged out in favor of Rodgers, but this has happenned to Montana, Namath, Unitas and many other great nfl qbs----time marches on and its time for difficult decisions.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:26 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
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I think he's one of the most overrated QBs as well. My friend and I have had a debate about this several times. Everytime he goes over his record breaking statistics, I go over the other not-so-great records that he has as well.

One thing I will give him though is that he played in so many games without missing a start, which is amazing considering his position and sport. But the caveat to that is that he has only won like 1 SB in 20 years.

Farve is a schoolyard player though, completely unpredictable at times, which also made him dangerous, but he use to make A LOT of mistakes that people never called him on. John Madden use to brown nose him to death and made light of a lot of dumb moves by him. And the guy has thrown more game losing interceptions than I can remember.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
One thing I will give him though is that he played in so many games without missing a start. But it's not so impressive that he has only won 1 SB in 20 years.


Brett Favre never won a Super Bowl. Tom Brady never has either. Neither has Big Ben or any other QB, RB, DE, or individual player that has ever played in he NFL. Golfers have won championships as has tennis players. A team wins a title, a player does not. Anyone that judges an indvidual player based on how many titles they have been on that won championships is a fool. It is a team game and it doesnt matter how great or horrible you are at your individual postion, it takes a team to win a title so judging how great a player was or was not based on that is foolish.

Anyone who watched Brett Favre from the beginning of his career to the end a lot can tell you he is not overrated - far from it. I have seen a lot of QBs and other athletes that play sports be revered a lot more than they should have been and he is not one of them. We have guys like Vick who might be the most overrated player in NFL history receive a 100 million dollar contract when he probably doesnt deserve a job. Then, we have Tebow who can barely play the position become the most popular and media covered athlete in America. Favre played the game at a level that very few or any players will ever reach. There are numerous other QBs that can be named in the list of greatest of all-time but Favre is right there with them and anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what they are talking about.

Favre did have a lot of interceptions but anyone who watched them knows that a lot of them came in he 4th quarter when his team was behind and he was trying to win the game. He also had the balls to attempt a lot of things other QBs never have the guts to do and he is responsible for the resurgence of the Green Bay Packers franchise. Favre never had super start receivers to catch the ball and often times, there was a revolving door of receivers as a lot of them were only good for short periods.

I think Favre as a person has questionable character and is kind of an *******. But, that doesnt mean he wasnt one of the best players to ever play the game.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:16 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
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I've followed him since the beginning of his career. He's had an incredible career without a doubt, but he is greatly overrated. I think it's playing semantics to say that he's "never won a superbowl...and neither has any other QB" but the reality is, he has only led his team to one SB in 20 years which does not play to his favor imo.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
I've followed him since the beginning of his career. He's had an incredible career without a doubt, but he is greatly overrated. I think it's playing semantics to say that he's "never won a superbowl...and neither has any other QB" but the reality is, he has only led his team to one SB in 20 years which does not play to his favor imo.
I strongly disagree. When you have put up the numbers he did, are responsible for leading a resurgence of a great franchise that was down for nearly 20 years, and played the most important position in the sport in a way no one ever has, you are not overrated.

I am not playing semantics at all, it is the truth. You have to have the tools to win the Super Bowl and only one team each year can win it, even winning a single one is a remarkable accomplishment. There are many franchises that have not won a Super Bowl since Favre played his first game and some that have barely won a single playoff game. No one uses that as an indicator in any other position. Tony Gonzalez might be the best TE to ever play the game and he hasnt even experienced a playoff win.

Do you consider Dan Marino overrated? What about Peyton Manning? He has only one ring and probably wont get another. I think he is probably the best to play the game.

I actually think Tom Brady is overrated because of the fact he was on so many SB winning teams. He has had the advantage of being the QB in a dynasty with a revolving door of great players and a top notch coaching staff.

You have be the best QB to have ever played the game and never even won a playoff game or been on a team that has won multiple and not even be in the conversation.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:16 AM
 
1,833 posts, read 2,083,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Brett Favre never won a Super Bowl. Tom Brady never has either. Neither has Big Ben or any other QB, RB, DE, or individual player that has ever played in he NFL. Golfers have won championships as has tennis players. A team wins a title, a player does not. Anyone that judges an indvidual player based on how many titles they have been on that won championships is a fool. It is a team game and it doesnt matter how great or horrible you are at your individual postion, it takes a team to win a title so judging how great a player was or was not based on that is foolish.

It is a team game. But guys like Elway, Brady(in '01), Young, and Eli Manning to name a few won Superbowls with equal or less talent than Favre's Packer teams. Outside of '96, Favre had numerous chances to win and he had talent surrounding him. No reason not to have a minimum of 2-3 titles.


Quote:
Anyone who watched Brett Favre from the beginning of his career to the end a lot can tell you he is not overrated - far from it. I have seen a lot of QBs and other athletes that play sports be revered a lot more than they should have been and he is not one of them. We have guys like Vick who might be the most overrated player in NFL history receive a 100 million dollar contract when he probably doesnt deserve a job. Then, we have Tebow who can barely play the position become the most popular and media covered athlete in America. Favre played the game at a level that very few or any players will ever reach. There are numerous other QBs that can be named in the list of greatest of all-time but Favre is right there with them and anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what they are talking about.

Vick's style of play is certainly questionable, but he did more with less. One of his playoff wins was a blowout win at Lambeau against Favre, who went 20-42 with 2 INTs. He also went to the NFC title game in '04 with complete crap surrounding him. There is no comparison between Vick's Falcons and Favre's Packers.

As for Tebow, he might have a below average arm, but he is one of the clutchest QB's I have ever seen.


Quote:
Favre did have a lot of interceptions but anyone who watched them knows that a lot of them came in he 4th quarter when his team was behind and he was trying to win the game. He also had the balls to attempt a lot of things other QBs never have the guts to do and he is responsible for the resurgence of the Green Bay Packers franchise. Favre never had super start receivers to catch the ball and often times, there was a revolving door of receivers as a lot of them were only good for short periods.

No good receivers??? At least read my prior posts. He had Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Greg Jennings. All but Jennings were Pro Bowlers with Favre. He had help at wideout, he had good running backs, and he had an above average offensive line.


Quote:
I think Favre as a person has questionable character and is kind of an *******. But, that doesnt mean he wasnt one of the best players to ever play the game.

I don't disagree with this, but he's a borderline top 10 QB. And considering his situation in Green Bay, no reason not to be top 5.


Quote:
I strongly disagree. When you have put up the numbers he did, are responsible for leading a resurgence of a great franchise that was down for nearly 20 years, and played the most important position in the sport in a way no one ever has, you are not overrated.

That's crazy talk. That doesn't mean you're not overrated. The Packers should have been better than what they were.


Quote:
I am not playing semantics at all, it is the truth. You have to have the tools to win the Super Bowl and only one team each year can win it, even winning a single one is a remarkable accomplishment. There are many franchises that have not won a Super Bowl since Favre played his first game and some that have barely won a single playoff game. No one uses that as an indicator in any other position. Tony Gonzalez might be the best TE to ever play the game and he hasnt even experienced a playoff win.

The difference is unlike many teams, the Packers had the tools to win and should have done it more than once. Tony Gonzalez didn't cost his team games like Favre did. You can't expect him to win anything on a team where he leads in yards and Priest Holmes is 2nd. You can't expect him to win on a team where the best wideout is Eddie Kennison. It would have been a miracle if he won anything. Favre had no excuse not to win 2-3 titles.


Quote:
Do you consider Dan Marino overrated? What about Peyton Manning? He has only one ring and probably wont get another. I think he is probably the best to play the game.

Marino's Dolphins were similar to the Chiefs from 9-10 years ago in that he had no WR to throw to consistently. All things considered, he did a damn good job. Peyton is overrated in the sense that he only has 1 title and lost several times with home field. But he didn't throw away games like Favre did. Manning did play sub-par, but his off games were no where near Favre's off games. The Colts lost because their running game disappeared when they needed it.


Quote:
I actually think Tom Brady is overrated because of the fact he was on so many SB winning teams. He has had the advantage of being the QB in a dynasty with a revolving door of great players and a top notch coaching staff.

Brady is arguably the smartest QB to ever play. He won 3 titles and made another Superbowl by making key plays and maintaining his composure. He did have the best offensive line outside of the 90's Cowboys, but he hit open receivers consistently. He made Deion Branch, David Givens, and David Patten look like borderline Pro Bowlers. Just like Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne look better than what they were. The only difference is Harrison and Wayne would still be solid wideouts with another QB, though probably with 1000 yards at best. Branch, Givens, and Patten were nothing without Brady.


Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim
but the reality is, he has only led his team to one SB in 20 years which does not play to his favor imo.

I could see if Favre had the surrounding cast of McNabb's Eagles(no solid WR, using your RB as a main receiver) or Vick's Falcons(no wideouts at all, a TE as your main receiver, and using your RB as a second RB). Favre had the talent to win multiple times. He had Pro Bowl wideouts, Pro Bowl running backs, solid coaching, and an above average offensive line. I wouldn't expect Favre to win with either of those supporting casts and wouldn't hold it against him if he didn't. But he had more than enough talent.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
It is a team game. But guys like Elway, Brady(in '01), Young, and Eli Manning to name a few won Superbowls with equal or less talent than Favre's Packer teams. Outside of '96, Favre had numerous chances to win and he had talent surrounding him. No reason not to have a minimum of 2-3 titles.
You said it all in your first sentence. Teams win as a team and lose as a team. It is difficult to win a Super Bowl at all and a lot of it comes down to missed blocks, missed field goals, dropped balls, wrong routes, bad coverage, and numerous other mistakes players on teams make throughout a game. Putting it all on one player is foolish whether they are the QB or not.

I watched most every game Favre played as a Packer and every team he had including playoff teams had a lot of problem areas and lots of mistakes were made during playoff games. Not to mention how much fortune is involved in football. The Giants played a damn good Super Bowl against the Pats but if David Tyree doesnt make that crazy and lucky catch, they dont win that title. That is just an example of the crazy things that happen in sports that players have little control over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
Vick's style of play is certainly questionable, but he did more with less. One of his playoff wins was a blowout win at Lambeau against Favre, who went 20-42 with 2 INTs. He also went to the NFC title game in '04 with complete crap surrounding him. There is no comparison between Vick's Falcons and Favre's Packers.

As for Tebow, he might have a below average arm, but he is one of the clutchest QB's I have ever seen.
I am not saying that the teams are comparable but rather he is overrated by fans of the teams he has played on, the media, and apparently whoever gave him a 100 million dollar deal. The guy has only had like 2 or 3 300 yard games in his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
No good receivers??? At least read my prior posts. He had Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Greg Jennings. All but Jennings were Pro Bowlers with Favre. He had help at wideout, he had good running backs, and he had an above average offensive line.
I didnt say he didnt have any good recievers but that he didnt really have any super star receivers. Out of the receivers you named, Driver is the only one that was there for any decent amount of time and he is a good receiver but not a star. Sharpe retired a couple of season after Favre started and they didnt get along well or from what I read, Sharpe didnt get along with anyone well. Freeman faded after a super star season and a fat contract and career went to **** after that. Jennings was still a rookie when Favre was still there. Javon Walker is another worth mentioned but he had a good season, held out and got traded to Denver. He never had a Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss or other stud receiver. That is the main reason he was pushing for Moss to be signed in his last Packers season. I dont know how many times having young, inexperienced or average receivers cost him games and interceptions. He was throwing to guys like Antonio Chapman and the trainwreck that is Andre Rison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
I don't disagree with this, but he's a borderline top 10 QB. And considering his situation in Green Bay, no reason not to be top 5.
I strongly disagree. He is definitely Top 5, without question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
That's crazy talk. That doesn't mean you're not overrated. The Packers should have been better than what they were.
Being a consistent playoff team and one of the best in your conference is pretty damn good. Most franchises would kill for that kind of success. Have you looked at where Green Bay was before he took over? They may have been the worst NFL team in the 80s and hadnt won a playoff game in a long time before he lead them over the Lions in '92.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
The difference is unlike many teams, the Packers had the tools to win and should have done it more than once. Tony Gonzalez didn't cost his team games like Favre did. You can't expect him to win anything on a team where he leads in yards and Priest Holmes is 2nd. You can't expect him to win on a team where the best wideout is Eddie Kennison. It would have been a miracle if he won anything. Favre had no excuse not to win 2-3 titles.
A lot of franchises do not have 2 or 3 titles in their history but yet you are discounting Favre because his team did not win 2 or 3 titles while a single player was on the roster. It is not about excuses but rather they did not win more than one Super Bowl as a team in his tenure. A lot of QBs including some of the greats would kill to have a Super Bowl ring, multiple conference championship appearances and several division titles. Not to mention they had to deal with the Cowboys and 49ers early in his career who had way more talent and tools that the Packers did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
Marino's Dolphins were similar to the Chiefs from 9-10 years ago in that he had no WR to throw to consistently. All things considered, he did a damn good job. Peyton is overrated in the sense that he only has 1 title and lost several times with home field. But he didn't throw away games like Favre did. Manning did play sub-par, but his off games were no where near Favre's off games. The Colts lost because their running game disappeared when they needed it.
Peyton Manning is not overrated. He is probably the best to ever play the game. On top of being the QB, he is also the offensive coordinator. We saw this season how much impact he had on his team.

I love that the Colts lost because of their running game disappeared but the Packers should have won with super star running backs named Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green. They werent exactly the Adrian Peterson's of their time. They were made a lot better than they really were because of the threat of Favre's passing game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
Brady is arguably the smartest QB to ever play. He won 3 titles and made another Superbowl by making key plays and maintaining his composure. He did have the best offensive line outside of the 90's Cowboys, but he hit open receivers consistently. He made Deion Branch, David Givens, and David Patten look like borderline Pro Bowlers. Just like Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne look better than what they were. The only difference is Harrison and Wayne would still be solid wideouts with another QB, though probably with 1000 yards at best. Branch, Givens, and Patten were nothing without Brady.
Brady doesnt have Manning's smarts in his wettest dreams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
I could see if Favre had the surrounding cast of McNabb's Eagles(no solid WR, using your RB as a main receiver) or Vick's Falcons(no wideouts at all, a TE as your main receiver, and using your RB as a second RB). Favre had the talent to win multiple times. He had Pro Bowl wideouts, Pro Bowl running backs, solid coaching, and an above average offensive line. I wouldn't expect Favre to win with either of those supporting casts and wouldn't hold it against him if he didn't. But he had more than enough talent.
You're still putting way too much fault on Favre for the Packers lack of titles as you claim. It is a team effort and teams lose and win as a team. If you add up the mistakes made by the 53 players on a single team during a game, it would add up to dozens if not 100s. Those tiny and big mistakes are the reasons teams lose, not because their QB lost them the game. No single player ever loses a game in a team sport. Everyone always remembers what happens in the last moments of a game and likes to think those plays cost them the game but the plays that happen in the first few seconds are as big as factor as what happens in the last few seconds when determine who wins or loses.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:20 PM
 
1,833 posts, read 2,083,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
You said it all in your first sentence. Teams win as a team and lose as a team. It is difficult to win a Super Bowl at all and a lot of it comes down to missed blocks, missed field goals, dropped balls, wrong routes, bad coverage, and numerous other mistakes players on teams make throughout a game. Putting it all on one player is foolish whether they are the QB or not.

And they could have won more had it not been for Favre making poor decisions and throwing his team out of important games. No other top QB has done that. They might have a bad game and cost their team a game, but certainly not on a semi-regular basis.


Quote:
I watched most every game Favre played as a Packer and every team he had including playoff teams had a lot of problem areas and lots of mistakes were made during playoff games. Not to mention how much fortune is involved in football. The Giants played a damn good Super Bowl against the Pats but if David Tyree doesnt make that crazy and lucky catch, they dont win that title. That is just an example of the crazy things that happen in sports that players have little control over.

The Packers were better than other teams. The Packers talent wise were often a top 5 team in the NFL. Fluke plays do happen, but throwing picks and making stupid decisions are not fluke plays. It's poor decision making.


Quote:
I am not saying that the teams are comparable but rather he is overrated by fans of the teams he has played on, the media, and apparently whoever gave him a 100 million dollar deal. The guy has only had like 2 or 3 300 yard games in his career.

How was Vick overrated? He had garbage teams in Atlanta and whenever he led them to the playoffs, they overachieved. Teams with Brian Finneran, Shawn Jefferson, and Alge Crumpler catching passes. That's a sh*t team. If Vick had Favre's surrounding talent or at least respectable wide receivers, I'm sure he would have had more than 2 or 3 300 yard games.


Quote:
I didnt say he didnt have any good recievers but that he didnt really have any super star receivers. Out of the receivers you named, Driver is the only one that was there for any decent amount of time and he is a good receiver but not a star. Sharpe retired a couple of season after Favre started and they didnt get along well or from what I read, Sharpe didnt get along with anyone well. Freeman faded after a super star season and a fat contract and career went to **** after that. Jennings was still a rookie when Favre was still there. Javon Walker is another worth mentioned but he had a good season, held out and got traded to Denver. He never had a Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss or other stud receiver. That is the main reason he was pushing for Moss to be signed in his last Packers season. I dont know how many times having young, inexperienced or average receivers cost him games and interceptions. He was throwing to guys like Antonio Chapman and the trainwreck that is Andre Rison.

Don't downplay Favre's receivers. They were good and there were several Pro Bowlers. Sterling Sharpe put up 1461 and 1274 yards in back-to-back seasons. Antonio Freeman had a very good 3 year stretch, including a 1424 yard season. Javon Walker had a 1300 yard campaign. Donald Driver as a full-time starter under Favre had 1000 yards in all but one season, including three consecutive 1200 yard campaigns. Are these guys on the level of TO, Moss, or Harrison? No, but they're still top 10-15 WR's in the league. Favre wasn't lacking teammates from that position.


Quote:
I strongly disagree. He is definitely Top 5, without question.

Manning, Brady, Marino, Young, and Montana off the top of my head and I didn't even have to think. It's not limited to them either.


Quote:
Being a consistent playoff team and one of the best in your conference is pretty damn good. Most franchises would kill for that kind of success. Have you looked at where Green Bay was before he took over? They may have been the worst NFL team in the 80s and hadnt won a playoff game in a long time before he lead them over the Lions in '92.

From 1992-1998, the Packers went 9-7 three times, 11-5 twice, and 13-3 twice. From 1993-1998, they finished in every possible seed(1-6). Don't act as if they were this consistent powerhouse. They were not a top team most of the time. And the Packers didn't make the playoffs in '92.


Quote:
A lot of franchises do not have 2 or 3 titles in their history but yet you are discounting Favre because his team did not win 2 or 3 titles while a single player was on the roster. It is not about excuses but rather they did not win more than one Super Bowl as a team in his tenure. A lot of QBs including some of the greats would kill to have a Super Bowl ring, multiple conference championship appearances and several division titles. Not to mention they had to deal with the Cowboys and 49ers early in his career who had way more talent and tools that the Packers did.

A lot of franchises have not done a lot of things. The difference is their QB's weren't made to be this god-like figure. Favre had a long time to do damage and he won just 1 ring and had 1 other Superbowl appearance. If he had a mid 2000's Eagles or Falcons cast, that would be a great accomplishment. For a team that had a potential top 5 QB, Pro Bowl wideouts, and Pro Bowl running backs, it's a failure.


Quote:
Peyton Manning is not overrated. He is probably the best to ever play the game. On top of being the QB, he is also the offensive coordinator. We saw this season how much impact he had on his team.

In terms of skills and talent, he's not overrated. He is overrated in that his teams have been bounced with home field on numerous occasions. That's unacceptable for a player of his calibur. The difference between Manning and Favre is Manning didn't throw away games because of poor decision making.


Quote:
I love that the Colts lost because of their running game disappeared but the Packers should have won with super star running backs named Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green. They werent exactly the Adrian Peterson's of their time. They were made a lot better than they really were because of the threat of Favre's passing game.

Bennett was an average-slightly above average RB. Not great, but certainly not a bad player either. Levens in his 2 years as a starter(and while playing a full season) had over 1000 yards in both seasons, including a 1435 yard campaign. Green in every full season he played was over 1000 yards in every season. In a 5 year span, he put up 1175, 1387, 1240, 1883, and 1163 yards.You can sugarcoat it all you want, but these guys were very good running backs. When you were putting up 1300-1400 yards in the 90's, you were top 5. Even 10 years later, that's still good for top 7-8.


Quote:
Brady doesnt have Manning's smarts in his wettest dreams.

Perhaps in your wettest dreams. You obviously do not carefully watch Brady play. Brady is easily one of the smartest to ever play. He's also very poise. When Brady needs to hit a receiver, he hits him. He turned David Givens, David Patten, and Deion Branch into near 1000 yard receivers. These guys are not even close to being that relevant on another team. Manning made Harrison and Wayne better than what they were, but these guys are likely still hitting 1000 yards with another QB. Brady makes his receivers better. He turned Moss into a 1500 yard/23 TD receiver. Peyton Manning has more natural talent than Tom Brady, but Brady gets the most out of his receivers and turns complete scrubs into even somewhat relevant players. And this is coming from someone that hates the Patriots and Tom Brady with a passion.


Quote:
You're still putting way too much fault on Favre for the Packers lack of titles as you claim. It is a team effort and teams lose and win as a team. If you add up the mistakes made by the 53 players on a single team during a game, it would add up to dozens if not 100s. Those tiny and big mistakes are the reasons teams lose, not because their QB lost them the game. No single player ever loses a game in a team sport. Everyone always remembers what happens in the last moments of a game and likes to think those plays cost them the game but the plays that happen in the first few seconds are as big as factor as what happens in the last few seconds when determine who wins or loses.

You obviously have an agenda. I have yet to see a post that goes into deep statistical or even analytical detail. No single player loses a game, but when you're hyped into a QB that can do no wrong, you're expected to do a little more than what Favre did. Favre is a borderline top 10 QB. For 99% of everyone else, that's a great lifetime achievement. For Brett Favre and what he was capable of, that's a fail.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:32 PM
 
16,187 posts, read 20,200,340 times
Reputation: 46747


I originally let this thread slide because it was well written and it was contributed by a poster who was fairly new here and wasn't aware of the UMPTEEN Brett Favre threads created in this forum or the "sticky" that was created commenting about hot button issues (such as Favre)

"You obviously have an agenda". Um, let's not go there ok?

I'm going to lock this thread and re-open it tomorrow or the next day. Brett Favre has been cussed, discussed, MFed, and AMFed endlessly. If the conversation gets salty, it'll be closed on the spot.

Thread re-opened. Let's see where this goes.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 01-16-2012 at 11:35 PM..
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:51 AM
 
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Favre was a great QB and a great team leader. He won a lot of games with some pretty weak Packers teams.

The Packers were the joke of the NFL for 20 years until they got Favre. He made them into an elite team.

Rodgers I think will always be a stat machine but I don't think he's a great leader. I can't see Rodgers making a bad team good like Favre did. Look what Favre did with a mediocre Vikings team in 2009-came very close to taking them to the Superbowl even with a flawed offensive line and weak defense and overmatched coaching staff.
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