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Old 01-31-2015, 07:11 AM
 
6,449 posts, read 3,458,717 times
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Turning on the news this morning, plenty of talk about an upcoming football game.

In the past 14 years, six times on this particular special weekend I've listened to talk about the Super Bowl eve on my local news. 43% of the time in those 14 years, the team I follow has (and is) been there, vying for the Lombardi trophy. I don't care what any non Patriots fan says - at least part of the reason the Patriots are hated is due to their continued winning ways while their team can't seem to get there, or show any winning with regularity.

In Boston, as great of a sports town as it is, deep with history of the four major sports, this has to be the most satisfied and gratified I have ever felt as a fan. The Celtics have the most history of winning, but it's been a long time since they have shown any sign of being an elite team (since Larry Bird). Recently the Red Sox have showed life, but it's been a roller coaster ride. The Bruins recently have at least been in the mix for several years now. But this Patriots run for me is the most amazing, because I just look at the league as it is constructed now and realize how amazing it is for the Patriots to accomplish what they have these past 14 years.

I have fun with greatest ever talk - QB, coach, QB-coach tandem, team. I will always argue this Brady/Belichick era is the greatest football dynasty of all time. They don't have as many rings as the Steelers and 49ers that rarog noted about (within a similar time period). But this league of parity, this league of salary cap where teams are constantly moving their parts and having no long term continuity - Brady and Belichick have mastered the art of "working with what they have". Those teams of the past had much more continuity IMHO.

I feel lucky to be a Patriots fan, to truly have something to root for on Super Bowl Sunday for the 6th time in 14 years.
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:55 AM
 
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Those other NFL dynasties also had much stronger competition within their division over those years, especially the 49ers. I don't think merely getting to the playoffs almost every year turns you into a dynasty either. It's an accomplishment, but not the same (the Flyers have only missed the playoffs twice in the past 20 years, and even if they had won their Cups against Detroit and Chicago, they wouldn't be the most impressive franchise). IMO, the best team of the last decade is probably the Steelers. The Patriots were a legitimate dynasty in the early 2000s. But to claim they're still that dynasty when they haven't won in 10 years is pretty absurd.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the Midwest
626 posts, read 761,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
Those other NFL dynasties also had much stronger competition within their division over those years, especially the 49ers. I don't think merely getting to the playoffs almost every year turns you into a dynasty either. It's an accomplishment, but not the same (the Flyers have only missed the playoffs twice in the past 20 years, and even if they had won their Cups against Detroit and Chicago, they wouldn't be the most impressive franchise). IMO, the best team of the last decade is probably the Steelers. The Patriots were a legitimate dynasty in the early 2000s. But to claim they're still that dynasty when they haven't won in 10 years is pretty absurd.

I am actually a Chiefs fan, but I like Tom Brady, and I wanted the Patriots to win Super Bowl XLII and Super Bowl XLVI. Although Tom Brady already won three Super Bowls, I felt very sorry for him when the Patriots lost those two Super Bowls. I truly believe that he deserves a fourth Super Bowl win. I think about all these discussions about dynasty. Do you realize that the Patriots were only an Asante Samuel missed interception and a David Tyree helmet catch away from 19-0 and a missed Wes Welker catch from five Super Bowl wins????!!!!????
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
Those other NFL dynasties also had much stronger competition within their division over those years, especially the 49ers. I don't think merely getting to the playoffs almost every year turns you into a dynasty either. It's an accomplishment, but not the same (the Flyers have only missed the playoffs twice in the past 20 years, and even if they had won their Cups against Detroit and Chicago, they wouldn't be the most impressive franchise). IMO, the best team of the last decade is probably the Steelers. The Patriots were a legitimate dynasty in the early 2000s. But to claim they're still that dynasty when they haven't won in 10 years is pretty absurd.
It's what makes any argument like this never ending. In my theory of continuity is past generations, that goes for the opponents too, so the competition would be assumed tougher. I'm not basing my argument on # of times the Pats have been in the playoffs. I know the division they play in is weak. But as a whole, most teams have huge turnover rates in a 2-3 year period. Therefore players are continually having to learn new, and of sorts everyone is starting anew at the beginning of the season. I just look at the overall record in this era, and I think the Pats have stood out. Steelers have won 2 SB's recently, but they've also had years of mediocrity in their. The Pats have been by far the most consistent, and they do it in winning style. Getting to the playoffs is one thing - getting to the Championship 9 of 14 years and to the Super Bowl 6 of 14 years in this league supercedes a lot in my mind, beyond just winning the SB.

Fun argument to have, and not real solution. IF the Pats win Sunday, my argument becomes much stronger.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:12 AM
 
9,610 posts, read 4,601,933 times
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People hated the Cowboys, Steelers and Raiders back when they were dominant too. They were always accused of playing "dirty". Most fans always hate the best teams. They are jealous because their favorite isn't as good. As far as spygate goes, that was 2003. The Lions got caught doing the same thing in 2007. But they aren't called cheaters because they are not winning.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the Midwest
626 posts, read 761,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
People hated the Cowboys, Steelers and Raiders back when they were dominant too. They were always accused of playing "dirty". Most fans always hate the best teams. They are jealous because their favorite isn't as good. As far as spygate goes, that was 2003. The Lions got caught doing the same thing in 2007. But they are called cheaters because they are not winning.

Spygate was in 2007, and it was the Patriots who got in trouble.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous51 View Post
I am actually a Chiefs fan, but I like Tom Brady, and I wanted the Patriots to win Super Bowl XLII and Super Bowl XLVI. Although Tom Brady already won three Super Bowls, I felt very sorry for him when the Patriots lost those two Super Bowls. I truly believe that he deserves a fourth Super Bowl win. I think about all these discussions about dynasty. Do you realize that the Patriots were only an Asante Samuel missed interception and a David Tyree helmet catch away from 19-0 and a missed Wes Welker catch from five Super Bowl wins????!!!!????
You can also argue they're 3 field goals away from having 0 Super Bowl wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
Getting to the playoffs is one thing - getting to the Championship 9 of 14 years and to the Super Bowl 6 of 14 years in this league supercedes a lot in my mind, beyond just winning the SB.
But it's really different in football. If this were hockey or baseball or basketball, getting to the final 4 every year would be one thing. But when you play such a weak division that you get a bye every year and all you have to do is beat a relatively weak team (like Houston, Denver with Tebow, Indianapolis, Baltimore without Smith) on an extra week of rest to get to the AFCCG, it's not as big of an accomplishment as it seems. There's a reason they've failed to win it all once they've gotten to the final 4 so many times.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:25 AM
 
6,449 posts, read 3,458,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
You can also argue they're 3 field goals away from having 0 Super Bowl wins.

But it's really different in football. If this were hockey or baseball or basketball, getting to the final 4 every year would be one thing. But when you play such a weak division that you get a bye every year and all you have to do is beat a relatively weak team (like Houston, Denver with Tebow, Indianapolis, Baltimore without Smith) on an extra week of rest to get to the AFCCG, it's not as big of an accomplishment as it seems. There's a reason they've failed to win it all once they've gotten to the final 4 so many times.
I don't disagree, but I don't agree either.

At the end of the day each of us ultimately decides for ourselves where the Pats stand in history.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:37 AM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,511,430 times
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It's also my opinion, though I know many will disagree with me, that championship wins are far more important than championship appearances. I'd rather lose in the final 4 than in the championship game. If someone asked me to describe the Flyers' accomplishments, for example, I'd say they've won 2 Stanley Cups and been a perennial playoff team for the entire history of their franchise, other than a few years here and there. I wouldn't say they've won 2 Cups and been to 6 others.
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:39 AM
 
Location: SWFL
22,879 posts, read 19,308,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
People hated the Cowboys, Steelers and Raiders back when they were dominant too. They were always accused of playing "dirty". Most fans always hate the best teams. They are jealous because their favorite isn't as good. As far as spygate goes, that was 2003. The Lions got caught doing the same thing in 2007. But they aren't called cheaters because they are not winning.
Yep, in the years each of those teams were dominant, I hated them. Called 'em "dirty players". Of course then I had no team worth rooting for. I was jealous. We got to a SB but got trounced by Chicago. Then Miami. NOW I have a team to root for all the way! It sure feels good.
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