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Old 06-25-2012, 08:08 AM
 
3,726 posts, read 3,922,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
If you don't think Emmitt EARNED the numbers he put up, you clearly never watched him play. Personally, I think that ANY RB who ever played in the NFL EARNED every damn yard he ever gained... this aint flag football, this is tackle!!! I get that Barry is your favorite and he certainly has an argument to be #1 on any ones list but statements like this reveal your true character.... you hate Emmitt and the Cowboys... You loose all credibility if when say DUMB things like this..

The NFL Network was replaying the Cowboys vs Giants season finally from 1993 over the weekend... go watch it and report back and then tell me Emmitt won a lottery.
I hate the Cowboys and can admit Emmit was a great back and easily one of the best ever. I remember watching the game against New York at the beginning of 94 with the separated shoulder. You don't see too many athletes playing through things like that anymore
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:24 AM
 
657 posts, read 597,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Barry was great... top 3 easily. One of the things that hurts his case for being the BEST RB EVER in my eyes are his postseason stats. He was terrible in the postseason.. there is just no other way to put it.. he stunk!!! He certainly was never on a Super Bowl caliber team but his teams did make the post season. In fact, the Lions made the postseason 5 times in Barry's 10 seasons. Without Barry they likely never make postseason those years...

Still, Barry had very POOR postseason numbers... so I ask you this. Was Barry padding his stats against poor teams in the regular season? Because he certainly was NOT the SAME back in the post season against the BEST teams???

you can never drive a car with 3 flat tire...... that what barrys team were like ....... he was the only weapon ........ and only got a qb late in his career.....so a race 4 tire against 1 tire..... barry had no chance against better teams that focus on him and hype up with playoff mojo....
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,257,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Thats not 100% true. Sanders played on some really crappy Lions passing offenses, 1989-1994 left a whole lot to be desired most seasons, but he also played on good to average passing teams from 1995-1998.

Smith also played on a number of crappy passing teams, and some truly putrid offenses. Actually, outside of the Cowboys glory years, 91-95, the Cowboys only managed to be top half in the league in offense just 1 other year during Smiths tenure. They spent 6 years ranked in the bottom 10 of the NFL in total offense, just as many as the top 10. It is true, Sanders Lions only had 2 years where they were top 10 in offense during the Mitchell aerial days, but they were rarely as putrid as the 96-97 Cowboys and never as putrid as the 1990 Cowboys, or the Hutchinson/Carter Cowboys in the early 2000's.
Are you really going to compare Barry to Emmitt? Emmitt was a quality back but nowhere near Barry and your figures are a little off. Aikman was with the cowboys from 1989-2000, and Irvin 1988-1999. Now are you going to compare these 3 to any of the other 2 that Barry played with? Scott Mitchell? Andre Ware? Herman Moore was decent but come on,get real.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,257,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
If you compare stats between Bettis and Martin they are very similar. I think they are both more a reflection of longevity than greatness. They were both excellent backs, but I don't think either one is top ten discussion worthy.
I do agree about longevity but no one banged up a defense and wore them down like Bettis. I do think maybe around #10. I'm not saying anywhere around 1-7 but I do think he deserves a little proper respect. I realize he wasn't going to outrun or out-maneuver many, he was just going to steamroll you.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,257,797 times
Reputation: 2491
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Barry was great... top 3 easily. One of the things that hurts his case for being the BEST RB EVER in my eyes are his postseason stats. He was terrible in the postseason.. there is just no other way to put it.. he stunk!!! He certainly was never on a Super Bowl caliber team but his teams did make the post season. In fact, the Lions made the postseason 5 times in Barry's 10 seasons. Without Barry they likely never make postseason those years...

Still, Barry had very POOR postseason numbers... so I ask you this. Was Barry padding his stats against poor teams in the regular season? Because he certainly was NOT the SAME back in the post season against the BEST teams???
Usually good teams can make the playoffs but elite teams that are balance go all the way. Elite teams are also usually a little smarter than the others as well. Barry took his teams to the playoffs almost on his own shoulders alone but when he went against the elite he needed a little help and no one was there for him. No back in the modern age could have taken their team all the way singlehandedly but with Barry the odds were a little better. Does anyone think that Emmitt or anyone could have done better if they replaced Barry in Detroit? Definitely not!
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:03 AM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,430,705 times
Reputation: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
Are you really going to compare Barry to Emmitt? Emmitt was a quality back but nowhere near Barry and your figures are a little off. Aikman was with the cowboys from 1989-2000, and Irvin 1988-1999. Now are you going to compare these 3 to any of the other 2 that Barry played with? Scott Mitchell? Andre Ware? Herman Moore was decent but come on,get real.

Ironically... The Lions were better than the Cowboys originally. They beat the Cowboys and went to the NFC Championship the year before Emmit and Aikman won. And decisively...

Here is the game summary from the '91 Playoffs when the Lions beat the Aikman led Cowboys against the dreadful Lions passing attack you speak of...


Quarterback Erik Kramer led the Lions to their first and only postseason victory since 1957 by completing 29 out of 38 passes for 341 yards and 3 touchdowns. Kramer completed a 31-yard score to wide receiver Willie Green, a 6-yarder to Green, and a 7-yarder to wide receiver Herman Moore. Detroit defensive back Melvin Jenkins returned an interception 41-yard for a touchdown, kicker Eddie Murray added a 36-yard field goal, and running back Barry Sanders rushed for a 47-yard touchdown. The Cowboys' only scores were two 28-yard field goals by kicker Ken Willis. Dallas quarterback Steve Beuerlein was held to just 7 of 13 completions for 91 yards, with 1 interception.

Detroit Lions 38, Dallas Cowboys 6

Last edited by Mr. GE; 06-25-2012 at 12:03 PM..
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,755 posts, read 4,290,988 times
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I certainly do not think Emmitt would have fared any better on the Lions.. I suspect the Lions would have been about the same. My argument is not so much against Barry Sanders, he was one the best ever. My argument is for Emmitt Smith as being one of the best ever.. some think he was not.. some are nuts!
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,287,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
When I first saw the HOF voting results this year I was surprised to see Martin had made it.. then I went and looked at his stats.. WOW! How did I miss his career? He did his work very quietly.. OJ was not quiet, in fact he was the NFL in the mid 70s. I distinctly remember the chant from a MNF game; "Miami's got the Orange, but we got the Juice". That's was awesome. What OJ did in '73 was the single greatest season for a running back that I have ever seen and that alone puts above most on the greatest RB list.

I don't think its fair to compare runners from different ERAs like OJ to Curtis Martin but I do agree if you were doing an eyeball test, the winner is OJ. I also agree that Curtis Martin is the most under rated RB of all time... When you look at his stats, you simply think.. when did he do that?? I must have slept through a whole decade of NFL.

My family had season tickets for the Jets from 1971-2007 so I saw a lot of Martin live OJ also

Curtis played the right way, he let his play do the speaking for him unlike a lot of the modern athletes.

Like I said before, I define greatness on more than just paper stats. I don't know how old Mr.GE is and I don't know if he watched OJ in college or his favorite back Sayers play. I remember being @ Shea Stadium Dec 16, 1973 freezing my ass off watching OJ rip 200yds on us on the last game of the season. I remember OJ's first 3 years and they consisting him one of the biggest busts ever. He did have two of the greatness seasons ever and three good years. But like I said he only had 5 1,000 yard seasons in 11 seasons. I don't care if it was injuries or the Bills didn't know how to use him or it was his attitude it's still a fact.

Also like you said in the early to mid 70's it was all OJ, he was electrifying but hes was basically the only great back of that time. He didn't have backs like Faulk,Martin,Bettis,Emmitt,Alexander,Tomlinson,San ders,Terrel Davis, Thurman Thomas, Eddie George, Ricky Watters to deal with or to compare to. OJ played against Otis Armstrong,Jim Otis, Larry brown, John Brockington,Dan Woods, Chucky Foreman,Marv Hubbard,Lydell Mitchell,Ron Johnson, Floyd Little, not exactly the toughest competition to compare yourself to. From 72-76 he was the best RB in the game better than all I mention from his era by far but he only did it for 5 years. The other 6 years were less than mediocre at best.

With all that hype coming out of college I expected more I guess but again this only my opinion.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,430,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post
My family had season tickets for the Jets from 1971-2007 so I saw a lot of Martin live OJ also

Curtis played the right way, he let his play do the speaking for him unlike a lot of the modern athletes.

Like I said before, I define greatness on more than just paper stats. I don't know how old Mr.GE is and I don't know if he watched OJ in college or his favorite back Sayers play. I remember being @ Shea Stadium Dec 16, 1973 freezing my ass off watching OJ rip 200yds on us on the last game of the season. I remember OJ's first 3 years and they consisting him one of the biggest busts ever. He did have two of the greatness seasons ever and three good years. But like I said he only had 5 1,000 yard seasons in 11 seasons. I don't care if it was injuries or the Bills didn't know how to use him or it was his attitude it's still a fact.

Also like you said in the early to mid 70's it was all OJ, he was electrifying but hes was basically the only great back of that time. He didn't have backs like Faulk,Martin,Bettis,Emmitt,Alexander,Tomlinson,San ders,Terrel Davis, Thurman Thomas, Eddie George, Ricky Watters to deal with or to compare to. OJ played against Otis Armstrong,Jim Otis, Larry brown, John Brockington,Dan Woods, Chucky Foreman,Marv Hubbard,Lydell Mitchell,Ron Johnson, Floyd Little, not exactly the toughest competition to compare yourself to. From 72-76 he was the best RB in the game better than all I mention from his era by far but he only did it for 5 years. The other 6 years were less than mediocre at best.

With all that hype coming out of college I expected more I guess but again this only my opinion.
Martin never accomplished anything that another running back hasn't already done... While OJ

is the only player in NFL history to rush for over 2,000 yards in a 14 game season and he's the only player to rush for over 200 yards in six different games in his career.

No one is saying Martin is a scrub or that he doesnt belong in Canton. But him being better than OJ, TD, Sayers, Campbell, and Dickerson is just not the business.

He's probably better than Bettis or LT though.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,063,566 times
Reputation: 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
Are you really going to compare Barry to Emmitt? Emmitt was a quality back but nowhere near Barry and your figures are a little off. Aikman was with the cowboys from 1989-2000, and Irvin 1988-1999. Now are you going to compare these 3 to any of the other 2 that Barry played with? Scott Mitchell? Andre Ware? Herman Moore was decent but come on,get real.

1. When did I say Barry Sanders was worse than Emmitt?
2. My figures are not off, they are 100% accurate. I dont care what years Aikman played for the Cowboys. Aikman was garbage ending his career with an 81.6 passer rating, and only throwing more than 20 TDs one season. He road Emmitt and the offensive line.
3. Scott Mitchells 1995 season was more productive than ANY season Aikman EVER had. And yeah, lining up Moore, Perriman and Morton was more than the Cowboys ever had on the field during any point in Emmits career, and if that Detroit offense had anything better than Mitchell throwing the ball, it would have likely ended up in one of the best offensive explosions over 3 years of any NFL team in history.
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