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Old 03-07-2014, 10:05 AM
 
9,034 posts, read 16,464,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Wilson was the first SB winning QB since 2006 to NOT win the MVP...that says a lot right there...
It says that you really have no clue how to evaluate a performance if you put that much weight into a media voted award

Guy went 18-25 for 208 yards, 2 TDs, 0 Ints and had 3 rushes for 26 yards .... a cool 123.1 passer rating, killing it on 3rd down and extending and finishing drives

Was it transcendent? No - but it was still a very good performance on a day when they had pretty much no rushing game - plus he finished the game on the sideline with a smile as Tarvaris Jackson mopped up the Broncos

Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Stats don't lie, Russell Wilson threw less passes than any other starting QB in the NFL this year. In attempts per game, Russell Wilson is ranked 44th. 44th! That means even 11 of the backup QBs averaged more pass attempts per game than Wilson. Every single QB in the NFL, all 31 of them, throw the ball more than Wilson does. That's a fact, not my opinion. Stats are here: NFL Stats: by Player Category.
You want more stats? - Only QB to have over a 100 rating in each of his first 2 seasons, tied the record for TD passes and overall TDs for a rookie QB, more wins than any QB in their first 2 seasons, only 2 other QBs have thrown for over 50 TDs passes in their first two season - some guy named Marino and some guy named Peyton Manning .... he's also near the top of the league in YPA & YPC, not to mention the lift he gives with is legs which is a dynamic that is far from average

You want more stats? Here is a look at stat categories for his 2 year career start - 100 is league average for each category



Clearly well above average in all categories - except sacks ..... which makes the rest of his numbers more impressive - he extends plays and keeps them alive despite a line that hasn't done well pass blocking and WRs that don't gain immediate separation ..... this year he was pressured on 43.8% of all drop backs, with a banged up OL and a killer schedule of defensive opponents


Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Is Wilson a decent QB? Yes, even better than that. Is Wilson a good QB? yes. is Wilson a great QB? No. Russell Wilson was fortunate enough to walk onto an already stacked team. At the time Wilson joined Seattle as a rookie, they already had the #2 defense in the NFL, and a top 3 running back in the league. If you were to take Wilson away from his very good Seattle team and put him on the Redskins, Dolphins, Colts, etc...where RG3, Luck, and Tannehill went their rookie years, I doubt he would be going 13-13.
.
He is a great QB and clearly in the top tier of NFL QBs - it's not even close to being anything else

He's not in the elite level .... then again, he just finished his 2nd year - not many QBs are amongst the league elite after 2 years ......... he's on a pace that compares favorably to any QB that has come before him though

If being a QB was so easy when you have a solid team around you, then Tony Banks would have won a SB and Tarvaris Jackson would have held the Seattle job - instead of being pressed into a 3 way competition

It's not his fault that his team is balanced and operates in a smart fashion ..... however, just watch him play, watch the way he leads, watch the way he prepares and puts players in the proper situation to have success, watch how he makes his WRs better, how well he sells play action, how he keeps the plays alive with his legs, how he can make every throw on the field and is very accurate with the deep ball and can fire a short laser in a tight crowd as well

Then if something goes wrong and he needs to mount the team on his back and get loose with it - he's proven to do that as well

Time to face the reality that he's an excellent QB
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,587,178 times
Reputation: 9446
I enjoyed your post Finger Laker, make some nice points. I won't even disagree with a lot of it. All I'm asking is that fans of Wilson please acknowledge that he benefits greatly from his defense. Some folks refuse to talk about how much that defense does for Wlson and the offense. The average starting field position for the Seahawks offense is their own 41 yard line. That's the best average starting field position in the league! And Seattle's defense led the NFL in turnovers this year with 39. That's 39 free possessions for Wilson, many of which the offense probably took the field already in enemy territory.


Wilson has it better than any other QB in the league, and here's why:

- #1 defense in the league
- top 5 running back (Lynch)
- top 5 kicker (Hauschka)
- #1 "multi purpose" weapon in the league (Percy Harvin)
- CenturyLink Field, arguably the best homefield advantage in all of american sports

^^ Seriously, look at that friggin' list, Russell Wilson has it made. I'm not sure there are any QBs who even have three of those listings.


I'll end with this -- Tell me if this statement is true or false: Seattle's defense was so dominant this 2013 season, that if you replaced Russell Wilson with any of the top 15 QBs in the NFL, and have then run the same offense that Wilson did, there's a very good chance they would have won the superbowl this year as well. True or false?
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:46 AM
 
9,034 posts, read 16,464,495 times
Reputation: 6827
It's not his fault he's in a good situation and that shouldn't marginalize all the things he does well

a top 15 QB in the NFL is still pretty good and it's a bar that most replacement level guys in the NFL don't acheive

he's beyond just a top 15 QB though and it's absolutely false that just anyone could have stepped in there

Wilson was working on this season from the moment last season ended - he helped keep everyone focused through the offseason, held guys on both sides of the ball accountable and drives confidence in those around them ......... they know that they are never out of a game with him there and his approach never changes

You also have to acknowledge the murders row of defenses faced this year along with the OL struggles

How many young QBs have been pressured and hit early in their career and it just crumples them .... how many vets get happy feet and go deer in headlights

He just keeps working through it
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,587,178 times
Reputation: 9446
agree to disagree I guess. Wilson is a good quarterback, I'd say top 10 for sure. But I don't think he's excellent, as he's never had to run an offense that basically put the team on his shoulders. Seattle is a run-first offense, and they rely on their defense to keep the score low. Wilson grinds the clock out with Marshawn Lynch, and is very good at making throws when he needs to. But Wilson isn't out there bailing out the defense, being forced to win shootouts with scores like 41-35 after his D gives up touchdown after touchdown. I would be curious to see how Wilson would do in an offense like the Redskins, where they have the 30th worst defense in the league (29 PPG), worst special teams in the NFL (ranked 32nd), and an offensive line outside of Trent Williams that is god awful. If you were to toss Wilson onto the Skins this past year, He'd be lucky to win 5 games.

My mistake if I'm marginalizing what Wilson does well, but I do believe that Wilson would not have had so much success this season had he played for an average team. not even the worst team in the league like Houston or my beloved Redskins, but a average teams like the 9-7 Chargers or 7-9 Lions. Both teams with offensive weapons like what Wilson is used to in Seattle, but with poor defenses. I'd like to see how Wilson would play/react to being in a more pass-heavy offense, one that relies on him making a lot of throws. This season Wilson averaged 25 pass attempts per game, bottom of the league among all QBs. Where QBs like Stafford and Rivers average over 40 passes a game.

Like you said, I can't blame Wilson for being fortunate enough to play on one of the most talented teams in the NFL. But I'd like to see how he'd do in an offense that relies him on making a lot more throws, and handing it off a lot less.

Either way, the kid's a SB champion, and if Seattle can keep most of that defense together and keep Lynch healthy, Wilson might see some more rings in the near future.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:42 PM
 
9,034 posts, read 16,464,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
agree to disagree I guess. Wilson is a good quarterback, I'd say top 10 for sure. But I don't think he's excellent,
I would say that top 10 in the NFL is excellent

Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
I would be curious to see how Wilson would do in an offense like the Redskins, where they have the 30th worst defense in the league (29 PPG), worst special teams in the NFL (ranked 32nd), and an offensive line outside of Trent Williams that is god awful. If you were to toss Wilson onto the Skins this past year, He'd be lucky to win 5 games.
He's do fine -as they too have really good RBs .... he couldn't get pressured any more than what he has faced in Seattle and he would keep drives alive, flip field position and not turn the ball over - all of which would balance out time of possession, keep a bad defense off the field and make opposing offenses have to go longer to score .... he's also continue to be able to get chunk plays


The whole philosophy in Seattle is to grind the game - run fewer plays on both sides of the ball, use the time, just shorten it down

However, when they fall behind he's stepped up time and time again

Down 23-10 against the Pats in the 4th? A day in which Lynch went for 41 yards. The 4th quarter started with Zach Miller fumbling in NE territory which set up a short drive and FG to get to 23-10 ..... Next Seattle possession - 51 yard pass to Tate, incomplete, 5 yard run by Turbin, 2 yard pass to Tate - on 4th and 3 he hits Braylon Edwards for a 10 yard TD

Next offensive possession fizzled with a 3 and out featuring 2 incompletions and short gain by Lynch

They get one more crack at it needing a TD - Leon Washington has a good punt return, Wilson starts the drive with a 9 yard run, Lynch adds a 2 yard run and Wilson hits Sidney Rice for a 46 yard game winner with 1:27 left

The defense didn't always hold though - especially last year - Wilson led a go ahead TD drive in Detroit to put them up 3 with 5:34 left - next drive Detroit goes 80 yards for a TD eating all but 20 seconds of the clock, 12 of which were lost on the KO

Bears game - down 14-10, Seattle gets the ball at the 3 yard line with 3:40 left - incompletion, 11 yard pass, 7 yard pass, 11 yard lynch run, incomplete, 13 yard wilson run, 6 yard wilson run, incompletion, 6 yard pass negated by holding setting up 3rd & 14 and taking away a 1st down - 11 yard completion, 7 yard completion, 27 yard completion, 14 yard TD pass with 32 seconds left

Defense gives up game tying FG

Seattle gets ball to start OT @ 20 - 11 yard wilson run, 14 yard lynch run, 0 yard lynch run, delay of game brings up 2nd & 15 - 13 yard completion, 5 yard wilson run for 1st down, 3 yard lynch run, 2 yard lynch run, 12 yard wilson run, 1 yard lynch run, -1 yard lynch run brings up 3rd & 10 - 12 yard completion followed by a 13 yard TD to win it

That led to this quote by Brandon Marshall
Quote:
"He's a leader. He's a born leader. I listened to the guy talk. I watch how he conducts himself, how he handles himself. That's a guy I can watch and learn from. Even as a rookie, a young guy, Russell Wilson is a guy that is going to be special. He is special already. He did a great job today and he stayed in it, drove them down the field and got the job done."
Then there was the obvious playoff game in Atlanta where he led that furious comeback, only to have the defense break with virtually no time left .... it was an issue of theirs in 2012, the defense not holding late leads

Even with those outcomes, he still had 8 4th quarter comebacks and 10 game winning drives over his first 2 seasons ..... definitely steps up when called upon and carries the team when needed
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Apple Valley Calif
7,475 posts, read 20,244,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
I'll end with this -- Tell me if this statement is true or false: Seattle's defense was so dominant this 2013 season, that if you replaced Russell Wilson with any of the top 15 QBs in the NFL, and have then run the same offense that Wilson did, there's a very good chance they would have won the Superbowl this year as well. True or false?
False..!
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:18 AM
 
55 posts, read 87,762 times
Reputation: 87
Seattle looked tough again to start the season.
Russell Wilson's poise, not just his talent is what caught my attention
since his college days at Wisconsin. In the pregame show, Tony Dungy compared
his confidence to Joe Montana
Wilson's poise is what separate's young great quaterbacks from taking it to the next level.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:32 AM
 
3,009 posts, read 3,025,321 times
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"The separation is in the preparation."
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,176 posts, read 978,114 times
Reputation: 1295
Wilson has a defense that will be in the record books. They have an amazing running back. You can put Alex Smith on the Seahawks and they will have the same success. Wilson is very good but he will not be a "legend"
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Back and Forth FRANCE
2,716 posts, read 2,618,918 times
Reputation: 1476
I'll take a "game manager QB" over a QB with big numbers anyday. Seahawks and Ravens and proved over the last two years proved big numbers aren't needed to win a championship.
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