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Old 06-20-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: North America
5,949 posts, read 4,680,058 times
Reputation: 1934

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Um...maybe because this 82 year old name is insulting to a large number of Native Americans? It's been in all the papers

But again the point was totally missed. The argument was how will a name change solve the poverty and other issues NAs face. The answer is it won't, nobody claimed it would. It's a dumb argument that has nothing to do with topic. Let's try this analogy that I used in another thread. I see a little old lady who has dropped her groceries, so I help her by picking them up. Now this little old lady is on a fixed income and is without heat, food, or clothes. Because I can't help her with her other problems does that mean I should not have helped her with her groceries? Of course it doesn't. It's a dumb argument.
Talk about a dumb argument!

Helping an old lady helps her out.

But changing a team name does zilch to help anybody...that is the point.

Most native Americans couldn't care less because they know their community has REAL problems to deal with.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,490 posts, read 5,957,375 times
Reputation: 16226
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Talk about a dumb argument!

Helping an old lady helps her out.

But changing a team name does zilch to help anybody...that is the point.

Most native Americans couldn't care less because they know their community has REAL problems to deal with.
Oh my God this is getting frustrating. How can you say changing the name does zilch to help anyone when a group of NAs have gone to great lengths and expense to get it changed because it is a big problem for them. Seems to me it's pretty damn important to that group and yes a change would help them. Will it solve all their other problems? Of course not, nobody claimed it would. THAT is the dumb argument.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,655 posts, read 4,235,168 times
Reputation: 4602
Why doesn't Snyder just do what FSU does and pay them off.

The name doesn't offend me but it obviously offends some. My issue is that it should be a blanket offense that covers all offenders.. If the Redskins have to change their name then so does the Braves, Indians, Seminoles and any other native American themed mascot team names!

I am totally opposed to Snyder being forced to change the name by the Federal government. That sets a bad precedent. If those offended, wanted to really have an impact then they should boycott all things Redskins and all things NFL. Once the Redskins and the NFL feel the impact financially, the name will change.. until then, its just a bunch of white noise..
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
16,399 posts, read 13,125,622 times
Reputation: 72238
Oh no.......what are we going to call white bread?
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:39 AM
 
Location: North America
5,949 posts, read 4,680,058 times
Reputation: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Oh my God this is getting frustrating. How can you say changing the name does zilch to help anyone when a group of NAs have gone to great lengths and expense to get it changed because it is a big problem for them. Seems to me it's pretty damn important to that group and yes a change would help them. Will it solve all their other problems? Of course not, nobody claimed it would. THAT is the dumb argument.
A. What percentage of ALL native Americans are represented by this "group"?

If 1% of white people actively sought to be called "Northern European-Americans" would that automatically mean that the other 99% felt this was a priority as well?

-and-

B. HOW would a name change help improve the lives of impoverished Indians?

And please...be specific.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:55 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,662,734 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Oh my God this is getting frustrating. How can you say changing the name does zilch to help anyone when a group of NAs have gone to great lengths and expense to get it changed because it is a big problem for them. Seems to me it's pretty damn important to that group and yes a change would help them. Will it solve all their other problems? Of course not, nobody claimed it would. THAT is the dumb argument.
I agree with you, the lack of history and perspective these non-NAs in here give is terribly wrong.

Here is a decent article:

Redskins: Is Racism Really This Blind? - LA Progressive



And for those of you asking how changing the name would help NAs. Put into consideration the long horrible history the NAs have suffered over the past 200 years. Couple this with a society that portrays them as Redskins, paints goofy caricatures of them on sports uniforms worn by millions and then think about it.

I have yet to meet any NAs that are in favor of the name. Most of us in the NA community are fine with schools using names like warriors, braves, chiefs, and tribal names as long as the tribe is okay with it and they don't do any goofy misinformed acts (like the indian on a horse deal the chiefs stopped doing). The line is crossed when you use the term Redskins. No one in the NA community calls themselves redskins, NO ONE. No one introduces themselves as...hi my name is SSS, and I'm a redskin. Redskin was a term used by the white majority to discriminate against NAs. Jim Thorpe has written about signs at store fronts that read no Redskins allowed.

NAs are proud of their heritage, and that includes their tribe. No tribe is the same and we in the NA community like to be introduced as our proper tribal background, not some discriminatory term used for everyone of "red skin".

I'm not asking non-NAs to understand our history and heritage, but I would like to see you respect the wishes of a minority and underprivileged peoples. The 8 poorest counties in the US are located on reservation lands, but that doesn't mean we can't respect these people.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: North America
5,949 posts, read 4,680,058 times
Reputation: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
I agree with you, the lack of history and perspective these non-NAs in here give is terribly wrong.

Here is a decent article:

Redskins: Is Racism Really This Blind? - LA Progressive



And for those of you asking how changing the name would help NAs. Put into consideration the long horrible history the NAs have suffered over the past 200 years. Couple this with a society that portrays them as Redskins, paints goofy caricatures of them on sports uniforms worn by millions and then think about it.

I have yet to meet any NAs that are in favor of the name. Most of us in the NA community are fine with schools using names like warriors, braves, chiefs, and tribal names as long as the tribe is okay with it and they don't do any goofy misinformed acts (like the indian on a horse deal the chiefs stopped doing). The line is crossed when you use the term Redskins. No one in the NA community calls themselves redskins, NO ONE. No one introduces themselves as...hi my name is SSS, and I'm a redskin. Redskin was a term used by the white majority to discriminate against NAs. Jim Thorpe has written about signs at store fronts that read no Redskins allowed.

NAs are proud of their heritage, and that includes their tribe. No tribe is the same and we in the NA community like to be introduced as our proper tribal background, not some discriminatory term used for everyone of "red skin".

I'm not asking non-NAs to understand our history and heritage, but I would like to see you respect the wishes of a minority and underprivileged peoples. The 8 poorest counties in the US are located on reservation lands, but that doesn't mean we can't respect these people.

And when Washington's pro football team changes its name to something you like that will decrease poverty in these counties how?
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:36 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,662,734 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
And when Washington's pro football team changes its name to something you like that will decrease poverty in these counties how?
Who said anything about decreasing poverty?

It's not about that, it never has been it never will be.

It's about racism and clearly, as you (a non-NA) you will never understand that; but for some reason you feel like you should.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:44 AM
 
Location: North America
5,949 posts, read 4,680,058 times
Reputation: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
Who said anything about decreasing poverty?

It's not about that, it never has been it never will be.

It's about racism and clearly, as you (a non-NA) you will never understand that; but for some reason you feel like you should.
"Racism".

For 82 years this football team has had that nickname and in ALL THAT TIME the native Americans were so un-offended that they wouldn't BUY the team and change the name itself.

They couldn't mount a boycott large enough to force the team to change the name?

For nearly a century?

Perhaps this so-called "racism" that you claim wasn't exactly the nightmare for Indians that you are imagining it was or is. THAT is why MOST Indians couldn't care less...they have perspective and they do not have "white guilt".

The reason most native Americans aren't making a big deal about this is because they know that it isn't a big deal.

Its the nickname of some pro sports team...changing the name does NOTHING to help poor Indians.

Don't like the name...buy the team.

Can't afford it? Too bad.

I'm thinking you will be able to live with it.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:54 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,662,734 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
"Racism".

For 82 years this football team has had that nickname and in ALL THAT TIME the native Americans were so un-offended that they wouldn't BUY the team and change the name itself.

They couldn't mount a boycott large enough to force the team to change the name?

For nearly a century?

Perhaps this so-called "racism" that you claim wasn't exactly the nightmare for Indians that you are imagining it was or is. THAT is why MOST Indians couldn't care less...they have perspective and they do not have "white guilt".

The reason most native Americans aren't making a big deal about this is because they know that it isn't a big deal.

Its the nickname of some pro sports team...changing the name does NOTHING to help poor Indians.

Don't like the name...buy the team.

Can't afford it? Too bad.

I'm thinking you will be able to live with it.
Show me a source that says most NAs don't think it's a huge deal.

AIM has been speaking out against it for years, to no avail.

I'm not going to sit here and pick apart your argument, that would be too easy and a waste of my time.

Go on live your life, this doesn't affect you.
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