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Old 06-20-2014, 02:25 PM
 
Location: North America
5,951 posts, read 4,685,682 times
Reputation: 1934

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
The team itself would probably benefit from a name change the most. Everyone would want the old merchandise and the new. Also, it would be a good thing to do so they would probably get major deniro from the publicity and advertising.

Who knows maybe Native Americans would be more involved in American football?
It would be smart financially to change the name but, ultimately, it wouldn't matter.
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,502 posts, read 5,972,160 times
Reputation: 16294
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
In all of your weird examples stopping a hypothetical action or taking a hypothetical action literally helps out a hypothetical situation.

By changing the name of a sports team (a name they've had for 82 years) NOTHING, literally NOTHING is "helped" or "improved" in the lives of Indians.

An example of how the Redskins could help out a situation by making a change:

Let's say that FedEx Field (where the Redskins play their home games) used too much water that was supposed to go to local residents. The residents protest...and the Redskins use less water at the stadium.

THAT is an example of the team making a change that actually matters to people and would help people out.

Changing the name of the team does ZERO to help out native Americans!

Claiming that the team name is a major priority for American Indians is an insult to them because it ignores REAL problems that exist on the reservations.
You keep dismissing a name change it as unimportant because it is unimportant to you. But I assure you it is very important to the folks who are offended. If we are to believe the 10% figure, and I happen to believe a new poll would show a higher figure, that represents over a half a million NAs who are offended and want the name change. So yeah to those people a name change would be a big "help" if you insist on using that word. Again nobody is claiming it will provide fresh water, job opportunities or anything tangible. But you can't put a price on pride and just what the cost is when you offend a large number of very proud people.

Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 06-20-2014 at 03:47 PM..
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,502 posts, read 5,972,160 times
Reputation: 16294
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
It would be smart financially to change the name but, ultimately, it wouldn't matter.

The local radio shows here in DC are up in arms about this. They swear a change will cost millions. They claim fans will turn on the team as a large majority of Skins fans do not want it changed and are pissed. They claim they will move up the road to Baltimore and root for the Ravens and that will hurt the team financially. And the first few callers said that's exactly what they would do if the name's changed.

I call BS. If Jim Zorn, Dan Snyder and the cast of fools we've had to deal with for nearly 2 decades has not caused them to move north and jump on a winner by now a simple name change won't do it either. If they do change teams over this then they weren't much of a fan to begin with.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:21 PM
 
Location: North America
5,951 posts, read 4,685,682 times
Reputation: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
You keep dismissing a name change it as unimportant because it is unimportant to you. But I assure you it is very important to the folks who are offended. If we are to believe the 10% figure, and I happen to believe a new poll would show a higher figure, that represents over a half a million NAs who are offended and want the name change. So yeah to those people a name change would be a big "help" if you insist on using that word. Again nobody is claiming it will provide fresh water, job opportunities or anything tangible. But you can't put a price on pride and just what the cost is when you offend a large number of very proud people.
The part of your quote in bold is flat out untrue. Not once did I say that the name of the team is unimportant because "it is unimportant to me".

In fact, I've tried to convey that the team's name is unimportant to MOST people of all colors simply because it is the name of some sports team, which is inherently unimportant to all except those who make money off of the team.

If Snyder changed the team name tomorrow to the "Unoffensive Blands" then it wouldn't affect me at all even though I'd feel bad that the guy succumbed to bullying.

How do you feel about the THOUSANDS of other place names in this country named after Indian culture?

If a few thousand Indians felt "offended" then shouldn't those place names have to change to?

Is America a country where things must be changed immediately if ANY single person is offended by anything?

What about white people who are offended by institutions with "black" or "African-American" in the title?

Should they have a right to put "white" or "European-American" in the title of white institutions?

Or is that racist?

Where does this madness of oversensitivity stop?

By the way, if this is such a big deal then why won't a group of "right minded" people offer to buy the team?

Then they can change the name to whatever soft, cuddly, unoffensive name they wish.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: North America
5,951 posts, read 4,685,682 times
Reputation: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
The local radio shows here in DC are up in arms about this. They swear a change will cost millions. They claim fans will turn on the team as a large majority of Skins fans do not want it changed and are pissed. They claim they will move up the road to Baltimore and root for the Ravens and that will hurt the team financially. And the first few callers said that's exactly what they would do if the name's changed.

I call BS. If Jim Zorn, Dan Snyder and the cast of fools we've had to deal with for nearly 2 decades has not caused them to move north and jump on a winner by now a simple name change won't do it either. If they do change teams over this then they weren't much of a fan to begin with.
People would be angry that Dan caved to the bullying but they'd get over it.

The team and its fans are far more than some name.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,134 posts, read 4,825,228 times
Reputation: 8152
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
that's just it though....of the native americans in this country, only a few were offended by the Redskins name. And polls have shown that there are still 72? Native American schools across the west that have a school name "Redskins"

Politicians and radio/tv personalities are taking advantage of this latest trending issue to make themselves appear "open minded, progressive, and deep thinking," but behind closed doors probably dont' care either way about the name. Just using it for political points. Disgusting really.

Look you guys.....at the end of the day, we are talking about the name of a sports team. Seriously?! Why is Obama speaking about this in front of the press?! Isn't Iraq falling aparat?! who cares about the name of a football team?

If the Redskins were to change the name, how will the United States be a better place the next day?
As to your statement "We are talking about the name of a sports team", so long as you are consistent and would also have no problems with a team named the "Palefaces" or "Gringos", your views should be respected. If you are fine with the Redskins name and have a problem with those two, you of course would be a supreme hypocrite. Consistency is everything.

I still believe if Snyder were to act on this, handing the decision to the fans (and not some person claiming to be offended from outside the region) would be the smartest and most honorable thing to do. If the fans kept the name, he tells the press "The fans have voted. I have nothing more to say on this matter." Settled.
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Old 06-21-2014, 04:54 AM
 
5,234 posts, read 5,123,583 times
Reputation: 9740
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
They claim they will move up the road to Baltimore and root for the Ravens...

Like all of the former Colts fans that were going to suddenly become fans of the Washington NFL club when the Colts left Baltimore?


Didn't happen.
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Old 06-21-2014, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,502 posts, read 5,972,160 times
Reputation: 16294
Granted this is a small sample size but just as I suspected a recent poll is dramatically different than the numbers the team and name supporters have been trotting out.

A recent study by the California State University, San Bernadino reports 67% of Native Americans find the Washington Redskins name and imagery racist.

12 percent of Native respondents were neutral and 20 percent disagreed. In contrast, 60 percent of white respondents do not find the name racist. When asked if they found the term “disrespectful,” the number of positive respondents rose to 68%

Fenelon prioritized the verification of Native identification while collecting more than 400 surveys. He told Indian Country Today Media Network that for him, this means the respondent is an “active enrolled member of a tribal group.”
The survey found the use of the term by non-Indians was seen as racist by 65.5% of Native respondents, whereas only 17.8% do not believe it is racist.




http://www.buzzfeed.com/lindseyadler...by-racial-slur

Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 06-21-2014 at 05:43 AM..
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Old 06-21-2014, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,502 posts, read 5,972,160 times
Reputation: 16294
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
The part of your quote in bold is flat out untrue. Not once did I say that the name of the team is unimportant because "it is unimportant to me".

In fact, I've tried to convey that the team's name is unimportant to MOST people of all colors simply because it is the name of some sports team, which is inherently unimportant to all except those who make money off of the team.
It seemed important enough to those offended to take on a very rich and powerful man. So it's hardly only important to those "making money off the team"

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
If Snyder changed the team name tomorrow to the "Unoffensive Blands" then it wouldn't affect me at all even though I'd feel bad that the guy succumbed to bullying.
This is what I meant when I said the name is not important to you. Your post above as well as the first one I quoted confirms this. But again you are not a member of a very proud group who feels as if their pride and heritage is being pissed on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
How do you feel about the THOUSANDS of other place names in this country named after Indian culture?
If a few thousand Indians felt "offended" then shouldn't those place names have to change to?
The names Indians, Braves, etc are not a physical description of an ethnic group in a way that 7 dictionaries defines as derogatory. And again we are not talking abouit "a few thousand" here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Is America a country where things must be changed immediately if ANY single person is offended by anything?
Of course not. This is not that situation, especailly with the recent poll results I just posted we are talking about millions of NAs

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
What about white people who are offended by institutions with "black" or "African-American" in the title?

Should they have a right to put "white" or "European-American" in the title of white institutions?

Or is that racist?
It's not racist, it's stupid. Not unlike the entire "a black man can use the N word, why can't I?" argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
By the way, if this is such a big deal then why won't a group of "right minded" people offer to buy the team?[

Then they can change the name to whatever soft, cuddly, unoffensive name they wish.
Oh I don't know, maybe because the owner has no intentions of selling the team?
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:05 AM
 
Location: North America
5,951 posts, read 4,685,682 times
Reputation: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
It seemed important enough to those offended to take on a very rich and powerful man. So it's hardly only important to those "making money off the team"

No, just because a minority of a minority ignore the real problems in their community to push this stupid name controversy to the top of the "problems we must solve" pile doesn't mean that MOST people within that group agree that it should be a top priority of their group.

This is what I meant when I said the name is not important to you. Your post above as well as the first one I quoted confirms this. But again you are not a member of a very proud group who feels as if their pride and heritage is being pissed on.

Those people who are so hurt and disgraced by the nickname of a sports team should have gotten their act together sooner to challenge the name of the team. 82 years later MOST people acknowledge that the name "Redskins" for a football team isn't the reason why the native American community has so many social problems.

They had 82 YEARS to deal with this!


The names Indians, Braves, etc are not a physical description of an ethnic group in a way that 7 dictionaries defines as derogatory. And again we are not talking abouit "a few thousand" here.

Who is to say that Braves, Indians, etc. isn't equally offensive? What if another tribe represented by a few hundred people feel that Atlanta should have a baseball team with a different name? Shouldn't the owners (by your logic) immediately drop the name so as not to "offend" anybody? There really is no limit to what business owners should do to make every single person feel better, right?

Of course not. This is not that situation, especailly with the recent poll results I just posted we are talking about millions of NAs

Actually, millions of NAs are trying to deal with real, day-to-day issues like bills and sick family members and really couldn't give a damn about the name of some far off sports team. They aren't preoccupied with white guilt.

It's not racist, it's stupid. Not unlike the entire "a black man can use the N word, why can't I?" argument.

Please point out where I proclaimed that I wish to use the "N" word like the African-American gentlemen I hear use the word almost everyday?

Oh I don't know, maybe because the owner has no intentions of selling the team?
So, these wealthy, casino owning Indian businessmen can't get together and make the guy an offer?

Gee...I guess the issue just ain't that big a deal to them then.
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