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Old 06-21-2014, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,467 posts, read 5,935,374 times
Reputation: 16170

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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
So, these wealthy, casino owning Indian businessmen can't get together and make the guy an offer?

Gee...I guess the issue just ain't that big a deal to them then.

Stop. Just stop. I am a lifelong Redskins fan. I know this team's situation very well. As a fan of a team with a horrible owner I wanted the team sold years ago. It's not going to happen. He has no intentions of selling the team. Ever.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:42 AM
 
Location: North America
5,936 posts, read 4,672,147 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Stop. Just stop. I am a lifelong Redskins fan. I know this team's situation very well. As a fan of a team with a horrible owner I wanted the team sold years ago. It's not going to happen. He has no intentions of selling the team. Ever.
Well since symbolism is so darned important to people like yourself wouldn't just an OFFER to buy the team make a statement?

I think it would say, "we disrespected native Americans have had enough of this name which holds back our people so we offer to buy the team from Dan Snyder".

I guess holding a press conference and releasing a statement is a far, far easier way to get attention for an "aggrieved" group of downtrodden souls.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:01 AM
 
58 posts, read 70,661 times
Reputation: 103
No, it isn't offensive. Nor would I be offended by little-dick crackers (although I don't know any teams that would want that name).

To slightly veer off since this topic is moot anyway - the name will be protected by the courts. The only case that can be made is using the Lanham Act which basically says you can't disparage or falsely suggest a connection to either living or dead people, institutions, or beliefs.

The courts know if they decide to extend it to a sport's team's nickname then it is game over for countless others as well. You can't apply the Act without allowing both parts (disparage and suggest connection) to apply meaning darn near everything that isn't an animal is done and must be changed. All other Native names (unless made partial owners)? Bye. Saints, Angels, Padres, Devils, Wizards, etc? Bye. Royals, Patriots, Senators, Capitals, Nationals, Islanders, Kings x2, Canucks and Canadiens (good luck forcing those two), etc? Bye. Bucs, Cowboys, Vikings, Pirates, Cavaliers, Rangers x2, Oilers, etc? See ya. We are talking 40+ just in the big four pro sports without including some of the possible reaches - Jazz, Blues, Pistons, Magic, etc.

Mark my words, the courts know better than to let this happen.
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,467 posts, read 5,935,374 times
Reputation: 16170
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Well since symbolism is so darned important to people like yourself wouldn't just an OFFER to buy the team make a statement?

I think it would say, "we disrespected native Americans have had enough of this name which holds back our people so we offer to buy the team from Dan Snyder".

I guess holding a press conference and releasing a statement is a far, far easier way to get attention for an "aggrieved" group of downtrodden souls.
So unless they offer to buy the team their objection to the name should be dismissed. This is your position.


Next
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:44 AM
 
92 posts, read 82,883 times
Reputation: 148
I'm not native american and I do find it offensive. If you called a team "cracker" "honky" "Peckerwood" or "whity" and had a white person as the logo, everyone here would say that's offensive. I mean it's one thing to have the team called "crackers" and have a logo as food, sure it's ok to be the food cracker team, or have "Peckerwood" as your team name and have your logo be a bird, but once you associate as race of people with that name, it is offensive and having that as your logo isn't cool. It's so lame that it's even a discussion because the owner won't change the name. For me, it would be less offensive if they kept the name "redskins" but removed the native american logo from their uniforms, etc. Associate redskins with anything else for all I care, just make the logo red or put red potato skins as the logo, but not a race of people. Like the aforementioned derogatory names, "redskins" is also derogatory, so it's offensive.

So not cool.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:00 AM
 
Location: North America
5,936 posts, read 4,672,147 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
So unless they offer to buy the team their objection to the name should be dismissed. This is your position.


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Please point out the post number where I wrote that.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,467 posts, read 5,935,374 times
Reputation: 16170
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Granted this is a small sample size but just as I suspected a recent poll is dramatically different than the numbers the team and name supporters have been trotting out.

A recent study by the California State University, San Bernadino reports 67% of Native Americans find the Washington Redskins name and imagery racist.

12 percent of Native respondents were neutral and 20 percent disagreed. In contrast, 60 percent of white respondents do not find the name racist. When asked if they found the term “disrespectful,” the number of positive respondents rose to 68%

Fenelon prioritized the verification of Native identification while collecting more than 400 surveys. He told Indian Country Today Media Network that for him, this means the respondent is an “active enrolled member of a tribal group.”
The survey found the use of the term by non-Indians was seen as racist by 65.5% of Native respondents, whereas only 17.8% do not believe it is racist.




http://www.buzzfeed.com/lindseyadler...by-racial-slur
Nobody wants to comment on this post? The agrument I hear most from those defending the name is that it's a small percent of NAs who are making a big deal out of a name most find OK. Well that was then, this is now. As I've been saying the climate is different now than when the polls the team and name defenders are using were taken.

Again not the end of the debate but this poll certainly changes the discussion. I just wish there were more recent polls but I couldn't find any. Have no idea why, it's been a hot topic for months now.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,467 posts, read 5,935,374 times
Reputation: 16170
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Please point out the post number where I wrote that.
I'm done with you.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: North America
5,936 posts, read 4,672,147 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I'm done with you.
Tapping out, eh?

lol.
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,057 posts, read 4,804,218 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Granted this is a small sample size but just as I suspected a recent poll is dramatically different than the numbers the team and name supporters have been trotting out.

A recent study by the California State University, San Bernadino reports 67% of Native Americans find the Washington Redskins name and imagery racist.

12 percent of Native respondents were neutral and 20 percent disagreed. In contrast, 60 percent of white respondents do not find the name racist. When asked if they found the term “disrespectful,” the number of positive respondents rose to 68%

Fenelon prioritized the verification of Native identification while collecting more than 400 surveys. He told Indian Country Today Media Network that for him, this means the respondent is an “active enrolled member of a tribal group.”
The survey found the use of the term by non-Indians was seen as racist by 65.5% of Native respondents, whereas only 17.8% do not believe it is racist.




http://www.buzzfeed.com/lindseyadler...by-racial-slur
I still support leaving it up to the fans and I am sure the data you provided from the CSU-San Bernardino poll would be shared in an effort to convince them to vote to change it (assuming that was done).

Find a poll among Redskins fans and that would be even more compelling IMO.

So long as the seats are being filled and the team is profitable, Snyder appears willing to put up with the occasional distraction of this issue. He would also get serious "heat" from those who want to keep it the same if he changed it, so it is one of those "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situations.

You certainly did a good job of presenting the information and arguments for supporting a change. Even among those supporting a name change, I doubt they would want the heavy hand of government stepping in to decide things. It should be through persuasion.

Until a significant number of Redskins fans view it that way and start boycotting to hit him where it hurts, the name will probably continue. I don't want to be insensitive, but the fans just deserve more say in this matter than an Indian in South Dakota or Oklahoma. You are a fan, but from what I have read, most want it to remain the same. I think a better name could be used, so I would be fine with a name change. However, the fans that support it are more important than what I believe. I have no right to impose my will as I have not given the team a dime.

Maybe you could get get a petition with hundreds of signatures of similar minded fans and give it to Snyder. Until a significant part of the fan base wants it, it will continue.

Last edited by chessgeek; 06-21-2014 at 01:24 PM..
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