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Old 06-21-2014, 01:41 PM
 
92 posts, read 82,883 times
Reputation: 148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
I still support leaving it up to the fans and I am sure the data you provided from the CSU-San Bernardino poll would be shared in an effort to convince them to vote to change it (assuming that was done).

Find a poll among Redskins fans and that would be even more compelling IMO.

So long as the seats are being filled and the team is profitable, Snyder appears willing to put up with the occasional distraction of this issue. He would also get serious "heat" from those who want to keep it the same if he changed it, so it is one of those "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situations.

You certainly did a good job of presenting the information and arguments for supporting a change. Even among those supporting a name change, I doubt they would want the heavy hand of government stepping in to decide things. It should be through persuasion.

Until a significant number of Redskins fans view it that way and start boycotting to hit him where it hurts, the name will probably continue. I don't want to be insensitive, but the fans just deserve more say in this matter than an Indian in South Dakota or Oklahoma. You are a fan, but from what I have read, most want it to remain the same. I think a better name could be used, so I would be fine with a name change. However, the fans that support it are more important than what I believe. I have no right to impose my will as I have not given the team a dime.

Maybe you could get get a petition with hundreds of signatures of similar minded fans and give it to Snyder. Until a significant part of the fan base wants it, it will continue.
It's racist, plain and simple, and everyone, not just redskins fans, have a right to speak up against racism.

Ick.
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,051 posts, read 4,804,218 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulblueskies View Post
It's racist, plain and simple, and everyone, not just redskins fans, have a right to speak up against racism.

Ick.
They can certainly speak out against it. They just have less right to impose their will on a decision about a team name than the fans that have devoted their money and time IMO. I personally don't know why it has not been changed as other teams make changes (ex. Stanford was Indians, is now Cardinals) without a problem. However, I am not a fan and do not live in the DC metro area. I respect their right to decide it.

I believe the poll information presented is more persuasive than just one person shouting it is racist. I definitely support your right to state it. Hopefully, you respect the right of those that disagree, too.

Would you like people in another part of the country deciding to ban the names of teams and businesses where you live? You have to be OK with that if you want it done in DC.

There are also concerns about a slippery slope of political correctness spreading. If some people in Guam and Puerto Rico suddenly said it is highly disrespectful and xenophobic that we only have 50 stars on the flag and should have 52, should we just do that, too?

BTW, I was in a college speech/debate class way back in 1979 and can't remember if any points would have been awarded for saying "Ick". LOL.

Last edited by chessgeek; 06-21-2014 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 06-21-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,466 posts, read 5,935,374 times
Reputation: 16165
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
I still support leaving it up to the fans and I am sure the data you provided from the CSU-San Bernardino poll would be shared in an effort to convince them to vote to change it (assuming that was done).

Find a poll among Redskins fans and that would be even more compelling IMO.

So long as the seats are being filled and the team is profitable, Snyder appears willing to put up with the occasional distraction of this issue. He would also get serious "heat" from those who want to keep it the same if he changed it, so it is one of those "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situations.

You certainly did a good job of presenting the information and arguments for supporting a change. Even among those supporting a name change, I doubt they would want the heavy hand of government stepping in to decide things. It should be through persuasion.

Until a significant number of Redskins fans view it that way and start boycotting to hit him where it hurts, the name will probably continue. I don't want to be insensitive, but the fans just deserve more say in this matter than an Indian in South Dakota or Oklahoma. You are a fan, but from what I have read, most want it to remain the same. I think a better name could be used, so I would be fine with a name change. However, the fans that support it are more important than what I believe. I have no right to impose my will as I have not given the team a dime.

Maybe you could get get a petition with hundreds of signatures of similar minded fans and give it to Snyder. Until a significant part of the fan base wants it, it will continue.
Why should it be up to the fans? We are not the ones who are offended.

As I said I'm a lifelong fan and up until this year I was against the change. But I could no longer rationalize that a name that describes an ethnic group by their skin color, a word that many (most now?) in the Native American community consider to be a slap in the face of their heritage, is not offensive and inappropriate in 2014.

As for persuasion, this is Danial Snyder we are talking about. A man who once filed suit against a local paper for an unflattering column. He will not be persuaded, the only way for a change is to force his hand and that is what the group who filed the suit is attempting to do.
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Old 06-21-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,051 posts, read 4,804,218 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Why should it be up to the fans? We are not the ones who are offended.

As I said I'm a lifelong fan and up until this year I was against the change. But I could no longer rationalize that a name that describes an ethnic group by their skin color, a word that many (most now?) in the Native American community consider to be a slap in the face of their heritage, is not offensive and inappropriate in 2014.

As for persuasion, this is Danial Snyder we are talking about. A man who once filed suit against a local paper for an unflattering column. He will not be persuaded, the only way for a change is to force his hand and that is what the group who filed the suit is attempting to do.
Considering how recent your change of mind was, I would not be overly critical of anyone else for believing in 2014 the same way you did in 2013. Certainly you have the right to disagree and the one poster you were dueling with for awhile was disrespectful IMO.

You may have missed a sentence or two of my post. I said I think they could use a better name and that Stanford did a name change with no problem, but also respect those who have rooted for the team as a major part of their lives. I believe the Stanford name change was done primarily from objections in the Bay Area region and there was not this much interference from well outside it as there is today regarding the DC pro team. I think even Snyder, as stubborn as he has been at times, might give consideration to a petition from the local fans.

So an ability to see both sides would be good for all of us as tolerance on both sides seems to be in short supply on this issue. Granted, most of that was from those wanting to keep the name earlier in the thread.

Are you ready for all the other name changes that logically would have to happen if the suit is successful?

In order to support this, native Americans will also have to respect the rights of other ethnic/racial groups when they name their youth sports teams, casinos, etc. It needs to be a two way street. They must be consistent! I would not be surprised if they one day face a suit for an offensive name, too and really would have no right to complain. I believe in rights if you give others the same rights. Got a little wordy here, but that is my philosophy.

I hope that if the judge rules for changing the name, that he/she also tells those bringing the suit that if they have an objectionable name that others find offensive, they have to play by those same rules. No special privileges.

Food for thought: Can Asians request that Slant Magazine change their name, too? Slant Magazine

I created a thread last year in which a woman from Rhode Island got a Minnesota pickle company called Gedney to change their "Midget" brand because she was offended and was raising a midget daughter. The company changed it voluntarily and likely to avoid a lawsuit. That was still over the top PC IMO.

Anyways, I respect your passion and change of heart on the issue even if we don't agree on all aspects.

Just beware of potential pitfalls and repercussions that others can ask the same of those requesting these changes and they are in their rights, too...that is all.

Having said all this, I would be very surprised if the Redskins did not have a different name five years from now (and my final word on the matter). Sorry for the long post.

Last edited by chessgeek; 06-21-2014 at 05:07 PM..
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:40 PM
 
92 posts, read 82,883 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
They can certainly speak out against it. They just have less right to impose their will on a decision about a team name than the fans that have devoted their money and time IMO. I personally don't know why it has not been changed as other teams make changes (ex. Stanford was Indians, is now Cardinals) without a problem. However, I am not a fan and do not live in the DC metro area. I respect their right to decide it.

I believe the poll information presented is more persuasive than just one person shouting it is racist. I definitely support your right to state it. Hopefully, you respect the right of those that disagree, too.

Would you like people in another part of the country deciding to ban the names of teams and businesses where you live? You have to be OK with that if you want it done in DC.

There are also concerns about a slippery slope of political correctness spreading. If some people in Guam and Puerto Rico suddenly said it is highly disrespectful and xenophobic that we only have 50 stars on the flag and should have 52, should we just do that, too?

BTW, I was in a college speech/debate class way back in 1979 and can't remember if any points would have been awarded for saying "Ick". LOL.
Believe what you want, I didn't (and several others who probably share my opinion) have a chance to take the poll, which is irrelevant. This is a discussion board to share opinions, at this time I'm sharing one that I don't care what the root of racism is, if it exists, everyone has the right to speak up against it. Like I said earlier, if the name of a team was "peckerwood" and the owners used a white person as the logo (instead of a bird), I'd speak up about it being offensive too.

Political correctness? I'd seriously like someone to start a team called the "crackers" with a silly looking photo of a white person as the logo. Let's see how many people scream political correctness about wanting to change that logo.

I attended college too sweetie and this is no college debate forum. I will share my gut reaction, and in terms of the fact that some people don't seem to understand this name and logo is racist or feel the need to also speak up about it because maybe they don't follow the team, that reaction is an icky and gross feeling, one I am more than willing to express with an "ick" regardless of your college debate standards. Please.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,051 posts, read 4,804,218 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulblueskies View Post
Believe what you want, I didn't (and several others who probably share my opinion) have a chance to take the poll, which is irrelevant. This is a discussion board to share opinions, at this time I'm sharing one that I don't care what the root of racism is, if it exists, everyone has the right to speak up against it. Like I said earlier, if the name of a team was "peckerwood" and the owners used a white person as the logo (instead of a bird), I'd speak up about it being offensive too.

Political correctness? I'd seriously like someone to start a team called the "crackers" with a silly looking photo of a white person as the logo. Let's see how many people scream political correctness about wanting to change that logo.

I attended college too sweetie and this is no college debate forum. I will share my gut reaction, and in terms of the fact that some people don't seem to understand this name and logo is racist or feel the need to also speak up about it because maybe they don't follow the team, that reaction is an icky and gross feeling, one I am more than willing to express with an "ick" regardless of your college debate standards. Please.
It was just a little light humor at the end. Seeing the word "ick" in print just made me laugh, that was all. Please don't take offense. I never called you a name (and to your credit vica versa too). I support your right to react to it however you choose. LOL.

I actually respect your views, just don't agree that outside forces or the heavy hand of government are the preferred approach here. I still think at the end of the day the people and preferably the fans in metro DC have to make the decision. I am actually surprised there has not been more of a desire from them to have it changed.

It will not be their name five years from now and probably not even three years from now. Even Dan Snyder can take only so much heat before he gets the message. Plus there is the lawsuit.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,334 posts, read 21,906,527 times
Reputation: 33531
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulblueskies View Post
Political correctness? I'd seriously like someone to start a team called the "crackers" with a silly looking photo of a white person as the logo. Let's see how many people scream political correctness about wanting to change that logo.
Rednecks and Redskins by Political Cartoonist Mike Luckovich

washington crackers
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:22 PM
 
5,224 posts, read 5,098,705 times
Reputation: 9730
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
If some people in Guam and Puerto Rico suddenly said it is highly disrespectful and xenophobic that we only have 50 stars on the flag and should have 52, should we just do that, too?

As long as Guam and Puerto Rico are not actual states, they will not be represented by stars on the U.S. flag. If they gain statehood, they will.


But that's an entirely different question anyway.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,051 posts, read 4,804,218 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by P47P47 View Post
As long as Guam and Puerto Rico are not actual states, they will not be represented by stars on the U.S. flag. If they gain statehood, they will.


But that's an entirely different question anyway.
I'll concede it is a different question. I am just trying to get people to think of a bigger picture in which people start having complaints over these other matters because they are encouraged over a change demanded by another group. It is entirely plausible some people could seek that recognition even as a territory. After all, people can vote in US elections in both places.

Really think in the final analysis some names are already being privately discussed by Snyder and other team executives in the event they lose the lawsuit. They may be the Redskins for maybe two or three years at most regardless of how I or anyone else thinks it should be resolved. That is my final two cents.

Maybe the Bureaucrats? LOL.
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,570,580 times
Reputation: 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
link please? like most of the nonsense you post as fact, this too is laughable

tick...tock...tick...tock...
Geez Louise, don't you have a smart mouth? Relax buddy, its the internet.

How Many High Schools Still Use Redskins Name? Here's A Map | SportsGrid

Forgive me, it was 62, not 72.

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