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Old 07-07-2014, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,489 posts, read 5,955,007 times
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I never agree that the fact that the logo was created by a NA 40 year ago means the name is still appropriate today. Apparently the grandson of the person who created the logo agrees with me:

Bill Wetzel said he is proud of his grandfather’s legacy but that he worries he will become “a pawn” in the name controversy. The logo and the name are two separate issues, he said, but he believes the time has come for both to go. When his grandfather followed the team, he said there weren’t studies that showed the harmful psychological effects of using Native Americans as mascots. There are now.
“We are in a different world now,” Wetzel said. “What was acceptable in my grandfather’s time, given what we know now, is simply not acceptable anymore.”


One Native American family with Redskins ties disagrees on whether name is offensive - The Washington Post
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,761 posts, read 4,247,370 times
Reputation: 3829
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
That whizzing sound you just heard was my point flying over your head.

I said the term girls is inappropriate in the workplace. This is true now, it was not true 40 years ago as the term was used commonly. If you don't believe me ask around.

You've just proved the point I was making. Context and setting often determine the meaning of a word - not the word standing by itself. Where as in your example, you say calling your female co-workers "girls" is inappropriate in the workplace. (Which by the way, I did ask around, and all the women thought you were nuts! Their words, not mine! ) But that as it stands, simply using the term "girl" to refer to the sex of a baby or a TV show's name would not be considered offensive. Where as the context in which the Washington Redskins uses the term "redskins" is by name, not for the purpose to degrade or offend Native Americans.

Secondly, you argue the point that meaning of words change over the years - again using your example of "girl Friday". Most dictionaries that list the word [redskin] as derogatory or offensive put the word "dated" next to it. Meaning that the word may have been used to offend Native Americans in the past at some point, but this no longer applies to today's meaning, or is no longer used to offend. I bet if you had asked around what does the term "redskin" mean to people - at least prior to all of this silliness - almost everybody would have said it either means a type of potato or a player of the football team.

The same point can also apply to Joe Bugel calling his offensive linemen "hogs". Well, I'm sure you go and call your portly co-workers hogs, they'll be extremely offended, but these guys embraced the nickname and were proud of it. Heck, they even marketed the name. The bottom line is, the franchise has never used the name "Redskins" to offend or degrade anybody. The name has always stood for pride and honor. And even in the face of all of this manufactured controversy, most Native Americans agree with that. But even despite of all that, I still support a name change if the Native Americans want it, but only the Native Americans.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,761 posts, read 4,247,370 times
Reputation: 3829
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I never agree that the fact that the logo was created by a NA 40 year ago means the name is still appropriate today. Apparently the grandson of the person who created the logo agrees with me:

Bill Wetzel said he is proud of his grandfather’s legacy but that he worries he will become “a pawn” in the name controversy. The logo and the name are two separate issues, he said, but he believes the time has come for both to go. When his grandfather followed the team, he said there weren’t studies that showed the harmful psychological effects of using Native Americans as mascots. There are now.
“We are in a different world now,” Wetzel said. “What was acceptable in my grandfather’s time, given what we know now, is simply not acceptable anymore.”


One Native American family with Redskins ties disagrees on whether name is offensive - The Washington Post
And apparently the son does not:

In a 2002 interview with The Washington Post, Blackie Wetzel said he had taken pictures of Indians in full headdress to the Redskins’ office and told officials he’d like to see one on the helmet. Within weeks, the new logo was chosen and appeared on helmets in 1972. “It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big-time team,” he said at the time. “It’s only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians.”

Donald Wetzel, who was a star basketball player in college and later served as an educator and a superintendent, said Native Americans remain proud of the logo to this day.

“I’ve never heard anything negative about the logo or the name from the tribal members I have run into,” said Wetzel, who lives in Montana. When he used to play sports, one nickname did bother him, he said. “If they called me ‘Chief,’ now that got to me. But if they had said ‘Redskin,’ I would have said, ‘You’re damn right.’ ”
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,489 posts, read 5,955,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
And apparently the son does not:

In a 2002 interview with The Washington Post, Blackie Wetzel said he had taken pictures of Indians in full headdress to the Redskins’ office and told officials he’d like to see one on the helmet. Within weeks, the new logo was chosen and appeared on helmets in 1972. “It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big-time team,” he said at the time. “It’s only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians.”

Donald Wetzel, who was a star basketball player in college and later served as an educator and a superintendent, said Native Americans remain proud of the logo to this day.

“I’ve never heard anything negative about the logo or the name from the tribal members I have run into,” said Wetzel, who lives in Montana. When he used to play sports, one nickname did bother him, he said. “If they called me ‘Chief,’ now that got to me. But if they had said ‘Redskin,’ I would have said, ‘You’re damn right.’ ”
The key here of course is this is from 2002. As I've been saying over and over again polls from 12 years ago are not relevant today

As for your female co-workers do you work in a strip club? Kidding...kidding. But I"m telling you if I called a co-worker a girl I'd hear about it.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,761 posts, read 4,247,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
The key here of course is this is from 2002. As I've been saying over and over again polls from 12 years ago are not relevant today
No, this is not from 2002.

Donald Wetzel Sr. knew what the Washington Redskins meant to his father. But it wasn’t until he stepped onto the team’s Virginia training grounds a few weeks ago that he learned what his father meant to the Redskins.

Donald Wetzel, who was a star basketball player in college and later served as an educator and a superintendent, said Native Americans remain proud of the logo to this day.


And then, what I found interesting is what Wetzel said from my earlier quote from the article:


“I’ve never heard anything negative about the logo or the name from the tribal members I have run into,” said Wetzel, who lives in Montana. When he used to play sports, one nickname did bother him, he said.If they called me ‘Chief,’ now that got to me. But if they had said ‘Redskin,’ I would have said, ‘You’re damn right.’ ”So this was all taken from the article you posted. Apparently, there is a difference of opinion between the Senior and Junior.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
As for your female co-workers do you work in a strip club? Kidding...kidding. But I"m telling you if I called a co-worker a girl I'd hear about it.
Hey, Candi and Caramel Apple have a bone to pick with you, lol!

I think if you said, "Hey you, girl, go run some copies for me", I'd see how that would get ya slapped. Then again, how does this sound? "Hey you, woman, go run some copies for me!" That would probably get you castrated. It's all context. I bet if you walked into a room with all your female co-workers and said, "You girls look so lovely today", they would all probably be grinning from ear to ear. They understand the context is not threatening, but of a sincere playful, complimenting nature.

And I think this is how this whole situation is right now. The word itself is benign - just like the word girl. At some point, someone must have used the word "redskin" in a context to try and offend the American Indians, but the term was not created to be offensive. And I think some people feel that once a term has been used in an offensive nature, even if the term was not initially created to be used as such, then the term is forever cursed. My thing is, the team is not using the term "redskins" to offend Native Americans. They're using it to honor them. Some Indians feel honor by it, others don't. which is why I always go back to what I've said time and time before, let the Native Americans come together and decide either way. I have no problem with that.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,489 posts, read 5,955,007 times
Reputation: 16224
Carmel Apple. Hmmmmmmmmm!
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,563 posts, read 15,499,678 times
Reputation: 11439
From last month...

Fan poll: Don’t drop Redskins name

A majority of D.C.-area residents do not want to see the Washington Redskins name changed, according to a new poll.
Sixty-five percent of those polled rejected calls for the NFL team to change its name,

...
However, the pollster said that of those polled, 71 percent said the team’s name is not offensive.



Interesting...
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,389 posts, read 21,954,803 times
Reputation: 33676
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
From last month...

Fan poll: Don’t drop Redskins name

A majority of D.C.-area residents do not want to see the Washington Redskins name changed, according to a new poll.
Sixty-five percent of those polled rejected calls for the NFL team to change its name,

...
However, the pollster said that of those polled, 71 percent said the team’s name is not offensive.


Interesting...
DC residents?

Shocking!!!

Coalition wants Redskins name kept out of TCF Bank Stadium for Vikings game | Star Tribune
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
3,244 posts, read 1,612,362 times
Reputation: 1746
Why aren't the people who think the name 'Redskin' is offensive have no apparent problem with 'Braves', 'Indians' etc.? I think some people are just plain old hypocrites.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,563 posts, read 15,499,678 times
Reputation: 11439
Media prep...

Redskins Firestorm: How the TV Networks Will Handle the Name Controversy

Networks are non-committal either way - and are giving freedom to the on-air talent.

Houston is playing the Redskins this weekend - the graphic on CSN Houston showed a blank maroon helmet.
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