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Old 01-25-2013, 01:46 PM
 
52,179 posts, read 41,981,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
I love your name, and as a fellow "mathguy" I was attempting to inform the dopes that believe this is racism about the coaching statistics, the general population of blacks and how they jive with each other.

What I can't WAIT to hear from someone like yourself, is how do you interpret the black demographics of the actual players (It is roughly 65-70% black athletes in NFL)? If you turn this same question around and pose it to these same people they will quickly say everything is meritorious and there is no evidence of racism, despite the over representation being 5 times the demographics of general population.

Care to expound? (I am befriending you btw)
Well, this goes to the core of the concept of redlining which was a practice back in the day where banks, insurance companies or whatever would literally draw a red line on the map and say don't give loans to people on that side of the line which would generally be the black areas etc. In short, a racist business practice with determinable bias.

What redling has morphed into now though is that just the disparity alone is proof of a problem. Ie) if you don't have enough of certain ethnicities, sexes etc. in certain roles it's defacto proof of inherent bias.

For example there was a thread about a prep highschool in NY under attack from the NAACP for having so many asians in it. (You had to test to get in). Well, imagine if you brought suit against some bigtime NY basketball highschool for not having enough asians on the basketball team?

Now to take race\sex etc. out of the equation it's my personal opinion that you have various societal, cultural, parental etc. forces that encourage and direct youth to put their efforts into various pursuits. Football, basketball, math, music, writing and so on and so forth. As a result you have disproportionate numbers of blacks in the NFL, you have a lot more women in nursing than men, you have a lot more white guys in hockey and so on and so forth....but that's not proof of racism....but it meets the modern definition of redlining.

So that's the rub, what % of NFL coaches should be black? 10%? 70%? Should we use a consistent definition to gauge if there is a problem or should it be allowed to vary?

I mean, if not having at least 50% blacks as head coaches is a problem.....should we not also have 50% of school teachers or should we use another number? This is a very very real public policy issue seeing as how billions are spent trying to even the playing field.

Hey, we all recognize that there have been problems as a result of racism. The tricky part is in making valid claims that there is or is not still a problem and if the problem is with something like a racist hiring policy, or perhaps the problem is that there is less interest in coaching among certain population segments or more from others or was there a lack of support at the youth level and so on and so forth.

Specific to the filling of 8 head coaches jobs....that's not a big sample size and a lot of that can be explained by variation in terms of the wants and needs of those hiring and the various applicants.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,635 posts, read 1,603,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
How many black head coaches are there currently in the NFL?

As a % of population it should be around 3.

With such a small number, even in a normal world there would sometimes be 0, or 1 or 5 and so forth.

Basically, if you have 4 black head coaches one year and 2 the next.....then it's suddenly evidence of racism? I ask this because there can be a lot of factors to the situation, just like you have some very respected coaches that don't even want to coach anymore or take a year off.

So, again...how many are there and how many do you think there should be and what would be an acceptable range on a year basis?

Just so you know we have a thread about the 1/2 billion or so in federal funding going into getting more blacks into the math and science field because they are under-represented in proportion to population. Even if their interests didn't lie in that direction or they were exposed to math and science heavily in their youth etc etc. Isn't it interesting that we do that for some things but when it comes to something like football, suddenly percentage of population isn't a fair yardstick but it should rather be closer to the percentage of blacks engaging in the activity of football?

I mean, imagine that few blacks were interested in teaching english but tons were interested in teaching math....and then you had 3% of english teachers black and 50% of math teachers black.....and then you called the hiring process of english teachers racist and the 50% mark to be wholely acceptable because so many blacks were interested in teaching math and went into the field. At what point would you need to start firing black math teachers and giving preference to oh....asian or white or hispanic math teachers to "fix" the problem?


Now ask yourself WHY is the federal government (as well as the NFL) doing this?

I disagree about where their interests lie because in that thread there were a few people who complained that couldnt get in a STEM field even though they were qualified. There are a lot of black people who are interested (and good at) math & science they just dont have the connections that the Indian or white people have in that field.

So apparantly the NFL & federal govt agree with me since they are making plans to change the rules!
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:53 PM
 
52,179 posts, read 41,981,129 times
Reputation: 32562
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
Did you even read this article?
Dan Rooney defends the rule that bears his name, hints at expansion | ProFootballTalk

It totally explains how the NFL evaluates coaches and how they evaluate players.
Most of the owners 20 years ago were old white guys from a different era so one can understand completely how the rooney rule need to be instituted as that's a group that would likely tend to just want to hire some white head coach.

I think that's something we can all agree upon.

The question is that is the recent rounds of hiring *proof* that this is still a big problem, a small problem still or is it just a statistical bump in the road where some years the numbers head the other way?

I mean, if there were 6 black head coaches last year and 4 this year....and back to 6 a couple years from now is that racism as is being claimed?

How many black head coaches are there and how many should there be?
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,343 posts, read 17,477,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Most of the owners 20 years ago were old white guys from a different era so one can understand completely how the rooney rule need to be instituted as that's a group that would likely tend to just want to hire some white head coach.

I think that's something we can all agree upon.

The question is that is the recent rounds of hiring *proof* that this is still a big problem, a small problem still or is it just a statistical bump in the road where some years the numbers head the other way?

I mean, if there were 6 black head coaches last year and 4 this year....and back to 6 a couple years from now is that racism as is being claimed?

How many black head coaches are there and how many should there be?
That's like asking "How many shots should Kobe be taking per game?" LOL
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:06 PM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 825,587 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
[/b]

Now ask yourself WHY is the federal government (as well as the NFL) doing this?

I disagree about where their interests lie because in that thread there were a few people who complained that couldnt get in a STEM field even though they were qualified. There are a lot of black people who are interested (and good at) math & science they just dont have the connections that the Indian or white people have in that field.

So apparantly the NFL & federal govt agree with me since they are making plans to change the rules!
That is absolutely BS, you act like asians and indians have some societal advantage when we all know they have no extra resources than anyone else. It has to do with culture, and the black culture puts way less emphasis on education than others. It considered acting white and people like Rob Parker perpetuate the problem when people that do come up alternative ways get lambasted for not being black enough.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:18 PM
 
52,179 posts, read 41,981,129 times
Reputation: 32562
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
There are a lot of black people who are interested (and good at) math & science they just dont have the connections that the Indian or white people have in that field.
Wow, so when I see all these division I basketball teams with tons of blacks on them....it's because of merit.

When you see a whole bunch of asians and indian people working as mathematicians.....it's undeserved due to their connections.

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Old 01-25-2013, 02:20 PM
 
52,179 posts, read 41,981,129 times
Reputation: 32562
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
That's like asking "How many shots should Kobe be taking per game?" LOL
"As many as he wants" would seem to be the answer based upon empirical evidence.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:27 PM
 
334 posts, read 628,237 times
Reputation: 265
I want to say most of the hot DC's were minorities and teams opted for the best OC's which turned out to be caucasians. I do like the proposal to expand the Rooney rule to coordinators and assistant head coaching positions.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:59 PM
 
52,179 posts, read 41,981,129 times
Reputation: 32562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vols44 View Post
I want to say most of the hot DC's were minorities and teams opted for the best OC's which turned out to be caucasians. I do like the proposal to expand the Rooney rule to coordinators and assistant head coaching positions.
Yeah, but it's odd that on one hand blacks have put a lot of effort into athletics and have shown great success....but say Indians in this country that have an academic family bias due to immigration visas are just succeeding through racist connections according to some.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much more offensive of a statement someone can make.

It's like they are claiming blacks are some sort of master race that dominate in certain areas and in areas where they aren't....it's because of racism.
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