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Old 11-05-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,734 posts, read 4,260,661 times
Reputation: 4715

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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Some of you talk as if it would be a given that Martin could just beat the crap out of Incognito. It could just as easily go the other way.
That doesn't matter. Bullies don't want to fight, they want to bully and intimidate. 95% of the time, when you stand up to a bully they back down. The ones that don't and do fight might win, might not but they wont fight the next day because they don't want to fight.. they want to bully so as soon as you stand up to them, fight or not, the bullying ends.

I don't know why Martin didn't stand up to him but that doesn't matter either. He should NOT have to face that type of crap in any work environment.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 34,065,593 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
What if he is scared of him? Incognito is pretty much a nut case that was voted as the dirtiest player in the NFL. I'm sure plenty of people would be scared of him.

And none of that fixes the problem, which is Incognito. He could then just move on to someone else. This douchebag needs to be dealt with. He deserves everything coming his way.
I agree with this.......I am just saying that on one level, Martin needed to be more proactive in dealing with Incognito. The fact that the Dolphins and the NFL also needed to get rid of the thug Incognito is not in dispute.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,904,669 times
Reputation: 16148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
That doesn't matter. Bullies don't want to fight, they want to bully and intimidate. 95% of the time, when you stand up to a bully they back down. The ones that don't and do fight might win, might not but they wont fight the next day because they don't want to fight.. they want to bully so as soon as you stand up to them, fight or not, the bullying ends.

I don't know why Martin didn't stand up to him but that doesn't matter either. He should NOT have to face that type of crap in any work environment.
I certainly agree with your second point. On your first point not so sure.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:19 AM
 
322 posts, read 447,468 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
That doesn't matter. Bullies don't want to fight, they want to bully and intimidate. 95% of the time, when you stand up to a bully they back down. The ones that don't and do fight might win, might not but they wont fight the next day because they don't want to fight.. they want to bully so as soon as you stand up to them, fight or not, the bullying ends.

I don't know why Martin didn't stand up to him but that doesn't matter either. He should NOT have to face that type of crap in any work environment.
I understand the point that you're trying to make and I tend to agree with this philosophy as it relates to daily life, but it is not that simple as it relates to any football locker room that I've been in. First, I feel the need to state that I am in no way condoning what Incognito did. He is scum who clearly took advantage of a younger player and stepped way across the line in doing so.

In every football locker room that I've been in, guys that are new to the team will eventually get picked on (whether people agree with this or not isn't really an issue). It has happened to me as a freshman in high school & college and the basic reason is because guys will want to see how "mentally tough" you are and where you will essentially fit within the "pecking order" of the locker room. Whether you agree with it or not (and I personally don't) "hazing" is used in a locker room to see how guys conduct themselves in adverse situations. The better you are able to handle these situations, the faster you'll be accepted by the "locker room".

The reason I say that Martin could not have just punched Incognito in the face to get him off of his back is that win/lose or draw it wouldn't have put Martin in a better position than he was already in. Yeah, he probably would have gotten Incognito off of his back...but from everything that I've read, Martin was fed up with the constant teasing and the feeling of being ostracized. Punching Incognito in the face would not have solved any of that. If anything they would have ostracized him even more.

For what ever reason, it seems that Martin was being singled out because he was identified as being soft. I don't play for the Dolphins so I have no clue how this was decided. But players are deemed soft for any number of reasons (not working hard enough, always injured, always complaining about something, not pushing yourself during workouts, handed a starting position without earning it, etc...etc.). If indeed Martin was identified as being soft it doesn't necessarily mean that he had to put up with the sophomoric hazing rituals to gain respect in the locker room. But it does mean that if he did hope to earn the respect from his peers, he would have to earn it through his performance. He would have to kick a** in workouts, he'd have to kick a** in practice and most importantly he'd have to kick a** on Sundays. Make no mistake, it's not easy to shake off the label of being soft. That's why nobody wants that label to begin with. Once guys in the locker room know that they can get to you it is going to be a tough road to hoe in order to get that respect back.

I feel bad for Martin because it doesn't seem like he had anyone to turn to for support. Some of the guys should have definitely supported him and Incognito should have been man enough not to take advantage of a guy who didn't want to play any of their reindeer games. But this is the problem with stuff like this; there is always one guy out there who takes it way to far.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:21 AM
 
20,976 posts, read 16,324,991 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
I agree with you on most CD issues, but I think you're talking out of your ass in regards to this particular topic. Sorry, just have to speak the truth. By the way, your name says it all! To each their own, I guess.

I do agree guns are the wrong answer in any situation, but something needed to be done and Martin did the right thing. Nobody will miss Incognito. Truly a simple, overpaid, waste of oxygen.
You are responsible for you.

There comes a point where you need to take a stand.

I am not condoning bullying, but I've witnessed enough to know how things should be handled.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,957 posts, read 10,664,868 times
Reputation: 34207
1. This is the result of women in schools turning boys into wimps for the last few decades. Forget standing up for onesself--just run to mommy.

2. Killers, druggies, drunks...OK, "Bullies," though? NFL's getting tough on them.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:09 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,094,888 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
"Soft" men should not be in the NFL.
LOL^^ at these internet tough guys telling us how "soft" this guy who is one of the best athletes in the world and made it to the highest level in a violent sport. And even harder at these people who say what they would have done to these lineman in football had they given them a hard time. Yea ok buddy.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,469 posts, read 22,030,542 times
Reputation: 33825
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
LOL^^ at these internet tough guys telling us how "soft" this guy who is one of the best athletes in the world and made it to the highest level in a violent sport. And even harder at these people who say what they would have done to these lineman in football had they given them a hard time. Yea ok buddy.
why, I oughta'......
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:49 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,899,922 times
Reputation: 2786
This entire situation should be viewed as a complete embarrassment for the Miami Dolphins and another sign that organization does not have what it takes to become one of the NFL's elite. People came into this season singing their praises and some even said they would be winning the AFC East.

This thing should have been handled in house by the players. If they were unable to calm things down then the coaching staff should have been involved.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:11 PM
 
7,489 posts, read 11,632,825 times
Reputation: 8340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I guess you guys have never been in a locker room, much less an NFL one. You can certainly be smart and sensitive and shun confrontations there. But there are some Neanderthals on football teams - you know, that violent sport, football - who don't respond to civilized behavior.

Do you remember Roger Staubach? Quarterback, All-American guy, born-again Christian?

He was being harassed and bullied by a teammate, Clint Longley. Roger turned the other cheek for most of a season until he couldn't take it anymore.

He invited Longley outside to settle their differences and beat the hell out of him.

Do you think being civilized worked in that instance? Sometimes bullies don't respond to that.
You're correct. I've never been in an NFL locker room and I don't ever want to be in one, as a player or a fan.

I think this thing is bigger than the NFL. I think our society loves violence. I think if Martin & Incognito both worked at Merrill Lynch, and that happened, and Martin 'took him outside and kicked his a@@' many people would secretly be cheering. It also gets women hot. People love violence. People also don't realize it's this kind of mentality that leads to murder and school shootings. Where violence is the only answer.

Rest assured, if Martin bopped Incognito on the nose, he'd still have a job. I think Martin going the route he did cost Incognito a whole lot more, and will get him to reconsider his attitude a whole lot more than a bloody nose
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