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Old 11-05-2013, 02:13 PM
 
20,976 posts, read 16,324,991 times
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Imagine Johnny Unitas or Chuck Bednarik whining about being teased or bullied?

I swear to god, I'm embarrassed for him and for those who make excuses for him.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:29 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 7,736,500 times
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(Bob Newhart voice):

So you're, you're telling me that, that this Interior Lineman, in the NFL, who has been paid his entire life on how mean and vicious he is, that he, uh, he sent you mean text messages?

And a, he sent you a voice mail? Did he touch you? No? OK. But he said he would. He said he was going - - he said he was going to **** in your mouth? Did he, do you think he was actually going to hold you down and **** in your mouth?

OK, uh - and are you a poorly paid civilian, like a janitor or do you work somewhere in Administration for the Dolphins organization? No? You - you are an NFL football player? And you quit the team? You left the NFL team because you thought he was going to hold you down and **** in your mouth and beat up your mother?

OK - I ah - let me just run down my checklist here: Ray Lewis was a party to a murder - - is now a lead analyst on ESPN, no repercussions; Michael Irvin stabbed Everett McIver with scissors, no repercussions; Charles Haley - known for slapping teammates in the face with his - - with his penis - - no repercussions. Here's one: Josh Brent actually killed a teammate last year: Remained on the roster for the remainder of the season, no NFL sanctions. However, he was subject to slow piano outro music for the duration of the ensuing game.

So - - these text messages - - did anything come of them? Any, uh, any mouth-****ting? Your mother, she's alive, yes? And you quit the team, you, you just left? You left an NFL team over - over text messages.

Oh - you say he used the N-word toward you? He - he used half of the n-word? How does - he called you half of the n-word.
Uh - which half?
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,343 posts, read 17,487,056 times
Reputation: 19655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfhtex View Post
(Bob Newhart voice):


OK - I ah - let me just run down my checklist here: Ray Lewis was a party to a murder - - is now a lead analyst on ESPN, no repercussions; Michael Irvin stabbed Everett McIver with scissors, no repercussions; Charles Haley - known for slapping teammates in the face with his - - with his penis - - no repercussions. Here's one: Josh Brent actually killed a teammate last year: Remained on the roster for the remainder of the season, no NFL sanctions. However, he was subject to slow piano outro music for the duration of the ensuing game.
So is this an argument for or against Martin?
Incognito can harm Martin w/o repercussions, right?
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:31 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,622,547 times
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I'm not saying that Jonathan Martin handled it the best way, but whether he did or didn't isn't the point. He was tormented by his teammates to the point of wanting to quit a sport he gets paid almost seven figures to play, and he was largely regarded as a guy with good character by his coaches before now. His alleged tormentor, on the other hand, has been repeatedly labeled a pariah. I think there are a lot of internet tough guys commenting on this thread who probably have absolutely no idea what Martin was going through for starters.

But for another thing, the question that really needs to be answered is this: how does this type of ogreish behavior by Incognito help his team? Has Incognito made them a better football team? Are they any closer to overtaking the Jets or Patriots for supremacy in their own division, much less challenging the rest of the league for a conference or Super Bowl title? Keep this in mind: the Indianapolis Colts and the New England Patriots had this guy specifically designed DNDC (Do Not Draft due to Character). Now, what's the big, big, big difference between the New England Patriots and Indianapolis Colts and the Miami Dolphins? The first two teams have won and competed in Super Bowls; the Dolphins haven't had even a sniff of playoff success in about 15 years. Maybe character really does help win championships, and maybe the lack of it, no matter how physically gifted a team's individuals are, prevents loaded teams from getting anywhere past .500 in the Wins and Losses column.

This is not to say that the 49ers or Patriots veterans don't break guys in -- I'm sure they do. But there's a way to do that. Making rookies pick up the tab at a bar or an expensive steakhouse? Shaving a rookie's head? Yeah, I get that. Calling someone up and threatening bodily harm in a context that is clearly not meant to be just a joke? No way. Not in a league that has one of 2012's biggest stars currently on trial for one homicide and most likely awaiting trial for two more murders.

Miami is just a terrible franchise right now, which is a shame, because it used to be one of the league's - one of professional sports' -- very best. If I were Huizenga or the majority owner, I would clean f-ing house. I would get rid of the GM -- immediately. I would give the new GM time to choose a new coach. I wouldn't just choose any GM, either; I would choose a GM with a track record -- Bill Polian comes to mind. What next? Bill Polian runs the team and Huizenga and Dolphins ownership shuts the f up and writes the checks -- period. No exceptions. Give Polian time to run off that weakling coach and all the other weakling coaches on the team. Give him time to recruit real coaches, real scouts, who will then bring in real talent and most of all, team players. No more Cecil Collins'. No more Ricky Williams. No more Icognitos. Not just talent, but winners. I'd also tell Don Shula to get lost. He was once an asset to the team, but he's the past, not the present and not the future. Get rid of the celebrity influence as well. Clean house. Make it a football team again, not a reality TV show platform.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:48 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,622,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Real men handle their own s-hit.

Boys run to momma.

Handling your s-hit doesn't mean shooting someone.

When I was a 21 year old rookie in the car business, there was a "bully".....you know, the kind of know it all who ruled the roost. He was a bigger, experienced 30 year old who tried to intimidate and embarrass me. I slapped him hard in the face in front of everyone my third day on the job. I kept my job, excelled, gained respect and he wound up leaving about 6 weeks later. I became the GSM at age 25 and worked there for 6 years.
Yeah, and what if he had pressed charges? You'd be jailed, sued, out of a job, possibly out of a career, and only God truly knows where it could have ended. Not the best advice one could give, I think. Brutes solve problems with brute force. It takes intelligence to survive in the real world these days.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:00 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,622,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
You want to believe that, believe it.
I actually do believe it in an overwhelming majority of cases. Moreover, psychological studies have proven this to be true. How people think they would behave in a situation is usually very, very different from what they'd actually do.

And I say this as someone who actually has physically stood up to bullies before. At the time and even now, I look back with a sense of pride that I was able to muster the balls to do it, but it was not without risk. I could have easily gotten my @ss beat in a few of the cases if the bullies had really wanted to get down to business. I'm really lucky one guy in particular decided to let it go - mainly because I stood up to him in front of all our mutual friends and they ended up taking my side and not his. If they hadn't given a toss, he'd have left him a pile of bloody pulp. It really depends on the bully you're dealing with, and the support system around you. In my cases, I always had someone who had my back. Martin evidently felt he didn't have that.

None of this is surprising given the fact that the Dolphins are obviously a terrible franchise with absolutely no coaching leadership, no veteran leadership, and no leadership in the owner's box. They're a complete, hallowed out JOKE of a team right now. They're a team owned by a guy who's the proud founder of one of the biggest retail failures in modern history (Blockbuster Video). Nevermind the bullying. If they were winning, maybe he'd be making a connection between the 'character building' and the results. But they're not winning. Haven't for years. And they're not about to start winning now.

Let's call this what it is: not bullying, but psychological terrorism. When you've got a franchise as astoundingly bad as the Dolphins, this kind of behavior - something that would NEVER be tolerated on the Patriots, 49ers, or Colts - becomes the norm. Sorry, but those of you trashing Martin forget one thing: He's already played for a coach who knows what teamwork is and he knows what team chemistry is. The guy played for Jim Harbaugh, arguably among the elite coaches at any level. Why in the world would someone expect him to tolerate this when he knows that's not what successful teams do?

Put all of the cr@p - and it is just that, a mile-high steaming load of unmitigated cr@p - about "well that's what happens in the military or that's just how it's done". UH, no, that's how it's dumb by stupid people in stupid organizations who don't really know what success is. That's not how successful franchises or organizations run, though.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:58 PM
 
Location: SW Pennsylvania, USA
21,747 posts, read 877,538 times
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Is it in any way possible that Martin knew that handling things the way he did would result in greater public attention to a culture that Martin thought was wrong or needed changing? My intro to this was during a televised game with Miami and how some player didn't report for work and could not be reached. Just like the disappearance of a child, the disappearance of a professional athlete in season is not going to go unnoticed. It raises red flags right away. Martin will be able to sit back and look non-antagonist toward the organization that pays him while the public raises questions.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,176 posts, read 981,612 times
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according to teammates incognito was a jokester and was really well respected
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:20 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,904,669 times
Reputation: 16148
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinSonic View Post
according to teammates incognito was a jokester and was really well respected
Apparently the rest of the league didn't feel that was as he was once voted the dirtiest player in the NFL and once the second dirtiest by players. And his history in college certainly doesn't back that up either.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:32 AM
 
10,698 posts, read 11,726,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Thin skinned cry baby...you either fight back or show that it doesn't bother you....(or in his case run under mommys skirt)

We have raised a generation of kids with no coping skills. No red ink...........my kid cant give out invitations to his friends at school, unless everybody gets one...........cant bring cookies to school for your child unless all the kids get one!!! Everybody gets a trophy!

Martin is in that generation of insulated kids!! The helicopter parenting age.....All hurt and rejection are bad things and we MUST keep it away!! As result, we get adults who cant figure out what to do, how to deal with conflict and who run away!

I'm not even saying he should have punched Incognito in the mouth (though in that setting, its an option). When I hear stuff like "They made Martin pay 15K for a Vegas trip" -------- Tell me how do you make someone do that. Did they have his bank account number.........hold a gun to his head??? If not.......THEN YOU A FOOL FOR GIVING THEM YOUR MONEY!! A WEAK-MINDED FOOL!

I have no sympathy for either of these guys.......Incognito for obvious reasons. But none for Martin simply because he's a grown butt man who needs to learn how to deal with life head on. You let someone run you outta the career you worked so hard for??? But I guarantee you that this is how he's been protected his whole life.

Racial or not.......The media keeps acting like this is Mississippi Burning or something! Like Martin was so helpless like black folks were back in the 50's deep south. Like he had no other recourse (like black folks back then). He could have gone to the coach,,,,The GM or "dag nabbit", to Wayne "friggin'" Hyzenga!!! If that didn't work the media is your friend!!

Last resort.....a throw down!! that's RIGHT!! Some things never change.....yeah you might go down too. But the sucka' that's raggin' on you don't really wanna keep getting hurt.


But learning how to cope is a skill learned through the fires of life......the kinds of fires we keep away from our kids..........the fires that build mental toughness, conflict resolution and problem solving skills.

When we do everything for them and we coddle them and tell them they are terrific at everything, we are creating emotional invalids........

That's Martin..........

That's not PC...........but its the truth

Last edited by citizenkane2; 11-06-2013 at 08:54 AM..
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