U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-19-2013, 08:17 PM
 
3,764 posts, read 3,803,439 times
Reputation: 5198

Advertisements

Not going out on a limb here, but Trent Richardson.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-19-2013, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Idaho
535 posts, read 471,796 times
Reputation: 1029
Matthew Stafford - Throwing into triple coverage and watching Megatron go get does not make him the elite QB that a lot of people pretend he is.


Ray Lewis - Yes he just retired, but really, is there anyone else in NFL history this good and running into a pile at the end of the play to pad his own tackle stats?


Drew Brees - This one was hard to put on here. It's kind of a tale of two players. If you are looking at Drew Brees in a nice climate-controlled dome, especially at home in the Super Dome, he earns every bit of the praise he gets. Put him under pressure in a cold outdoor environment and he looks average at best. True great QBs have to be able to win in every environment.


Peyton Manning - Now read this before you jump on me. Peyton Manning is an incredible QB, one of the best in the NFL and has been for over a decade. Mad respect to him for that. But here is my problem, many analysts have gone as far as to call him the greatest to ever play the game...and yet he own one of the worst postseason records of any QB....ever, at 9-11. 8 of those losses were one and outs. His only Super Bowl win came over Rex Grossman, after winning the AFC Title game over the Patriots thanks to a Pass Interference penalty that the NFL would later say was incorrect. The game before that, he could not score a single TD against the Ravens. In his second Super Bowl appearance, he threw a 70+ yard pick-six to seal the loss.

If you need someone to pile up 400 yards and 4 TDs on the Titans in October, Peyton is your guy. If you need a guy to deliver on the biggest stages....look elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2013, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
2,533 posts, read 3,955,501 times
Reputation: 2816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco64 View Post


Peyton Manning - Now read this before you jump on me. Peyton Manning is an incredible QB, one of the best in the NFL and has been for over a decade. Mad respect to him for that. But here is my problem, many analysts have gone as far as to call him the greatest to ever play the game...and yet he own one of the worst postseason records of any QB....ever, at 9-11. 8 of those losses were one and outs. His only Super Bowl win came over Rex Grossman, after winning the AFC Title game over the Patriots thanks to a Pass Interference penalty that the NFL would later say was incorrect. The game before that, he could not score a single TD against the Ravens. In his second Super Bowl appearance, he threw a 70+ yard pick-six to seal the loss.

If you need someone to pile up 400 yards and 4 TDs on the Titans in October, Peyton is your guy. If you need a guy to deliver on the biggest stages....look elsewhere.
By that logic I guess Brett Favre is overrated too? I mean, he only won 1 Super Bowl... lost another... and lost how many playoff games?

He was 13-11 over his playoff career.

I just don't buy into putting all the blame on the QB for playoff failures. I'll even go out on a limb and defend Matt Ryan who had outstanding career stats prior to this season.

1-4 in the playoffs... all 4 losses were to the NFC Super Bowl team that season... (Cardinals, Giants, Packers, 49ers)... with the Giants and Packers winning it all on their famous 10-6 hot streaks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2013, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Back and Forth FRANCE
2,716 posts, read 2,613,770 times
Reputation: 1476
RG3 is looking pretty overrated right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2013, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,929 posts, read 19,149,139 times
Reputation: 9155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
again - not true

you are clueless about the seahawks defense - it's obvious

their base defense is man coverage, it's what they like to run as much as possible ... they will throw in zone looks on their own due to situation and when the other team pretty much forces them to - which is why you see a lot of teams try to run bunch receiver sets against them, it's to break up the man coverage and force them into a zone look
I'm on my way out the door, so I'll make this quick.

- Bunch sets are extremely effective against zone coverages, especially when using flood concepts. This in of itself does not indicate the prevalence of man coverage.

- Pete Carroll and former DC Gus Bradley are both from the Tampa 2 coaching tree. While they don't use that scheme exclusively, it is used very often.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2013, 11:40 AM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,429,052 times
Reputation: 6814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
- Pete Carroll and former DC Gus Bradley are both from the Tampa 2 coaching tree. While they don't use that scheme exclusively, it is used very often.
No, no it isn't

While there is some overlapping philosophy - especially when it comes to the importance of the safety position, gap integrity, etc - they do not use much "Tampa 2" at all

Carroll goes back with Kiffin about 40 years - he definitely has a strong influence in what he runs, but Carroll has evolved a lot of it as well (much like Kiffin continued to evolve well after he was no longer working with Carroll)

Just look at Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor - they are far from prototypical Cover 2 safeties (Thomas would be a great fit - Kam not so much)

They also flip between 4-3 and 3-4 concepts throughout the game ....... 4-3 under v 4-3 over - same deal ..... basically as Carroll says, they run 4-3 concepts with 3-4 personnel

They focused on building a unique defense that isn't complicated in any set, but provides enough unique looks with guys with unique size/skill that it makes it hard to really prepare against them ..... they do not do a whole lot of things that are complicated in any set, but mix up their looks a lot which makes them a bit complicated as a whole (again - a lot of this is in Kiffins defensive philosophy - if not mirrored by the exact sets)

If you really have interest in geeking on the Seahawks defense, here is a good summary of the first 3 years - many of the concepts are still there this year, with different wrinkles and adaptations based on who is available, what is working, etc
Defining the Seahawks' Defense: An Introduction - Field Gulls

Here is a history of Carroll evolving throughout his career
Defining the Seahawks' Defense: Pete Carroll's Journey - Field Gulls

Defining the Seahawks' Defense: The Defensive Line, Part 1 - The Interior Duo - Field Gulls

Defining the Seahawks' Defense: The Defensive Line, Part 2 - the LEO and 5-Tech - Field Gulls

Plus, as you can see in a lot of the screen caps and gifs, even when they do put their safeties into more of a Tampa 2 alignment - the CBs are still holding man coverage a lot of the time

You really can't simplify the type of defense that Seattle runs

While there are a lot of ties between Carroll and Kiffin - when you think of the traditional Tampa 2, this seattle defense isn't built that way ...... when they adapt to Cover 3 they aren't using the MLB to fall back into deeper coverage (like the classic Tampa 2) - they don't have remotely the same build on the defensive line and the same for the SS ........ seattle frequently uses 2 gap assignments on the DL while Tampa 2 was pretty strict to 1 gap .... however, both defenses do put a premium on assignment responsibility, aggressive play, hard hitting and gang tackling using speed and athleticism to flow to the football .... both defenses were built by getting guys that didn't fit the prevailing prototype in later rounds because they had more value to what they wanted to run

None of that changes the fact that Seattle prefers and plays their best when they can man up their corners, allow Kam to come up in support of the run and allow Earl to play a wide centerfield ...... however, being the NFL the opposing offense will do it's part to try and keep Seattle out of their preferred defense as much as possible
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2013, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Idaho
535 posts, read 471,796 times
Reputation: 1029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post
I just don't buy into putting all the blame on the QB for playoff failures. I'll even go out on a limb and defend Matt Ryan who had outstanding career stats prior to this season.
No Peyton does not deserve all the blame for every loss, but many of them have largely been due to huge errors in critical moments, like the INT in the Super Bowl, or the one in OT last year. And I'll go on record as saying I DO think Brett Favre was overrated....later in his career. He was absolutely incredible through the early 2000s, but became way to prone to boneheaded turnovers and most of his records are more due to longevity then skill.

When you think of a guy like Joe Montana, Tom Brady, or even Ben Roethlisberger, you think about a guy delivering with clutch, game-winning drives in the tightest situations. When I think of Peyton in those situations.....I think of the pick-six.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,723 posts, read 11,546,947 times
Reputation: 12484
Kees, good point. In this stat crazy age, everyone goes by playoffs/SB wins, etc.! Some even mention that Tebow did better at Denver because he won a playoff game, please!!! This is the way it goes these days, Stafford from the Lions doesn't the respect because he's playing for a team hot one year, cold the next, no playoff success.

Very true about Favre, too! In the 2000s, it was all about his individual records, longevity, more about him than the team. Rodgers won't ever catch some of his number of games played etc., but by the time he's done playing, overall he'll have better percentages, etc., as he isn't an interception machine (unless that changes)!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2013, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,014,560 times
Reputation: 18406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco64 View Post
No Peyton does not deserve all the blame for every loss, but many of them have largely been due to huge errors in critical moments, like the INT in the Super Bowl, or the one in OT last year. And I'll go on record as saying I DO think Brett Favre was overrated....later in his career. He was absolutely incredible through the early 2000s, but became way to prone to boneheaded turnovers and most of his records are more due to longevity then skill.

When you think of a guy like Joe Montana, Tom Brady, or even Ben Roethlisberger, you think about a guy delivering with clutch, game-winning drives in the tightest situations. When I think of Peyton in those situations.....I think of the pick-six.
I'd take Peyton over Brady or Big Ben any day of the week. He's a pure passer, best at reading defenses, and the most dangerous QB in a two minute crunch. Let's not forget how many games were gifted to the Patriots on bad or missed calls. Without the tuck rule Brady has one less title. Brady and Montana also had the luxury of a much better defense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2013, 11:43 AM
 
3,722 posts, read 3,879,507 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
I'd take Peyton over Brady or Big Ben any day of the week. He's a pure passer, best at reading defenses, and the most dangerous QB in a two minute crunch. Let's not forget how many games were gifted to the Patriots on bad or missed calls. Without the tuck rule Brady has one less title. Brady and Montana also had the luxury of a much better defense.
Apart from perhaps the Tuck Rule game, feel free to list all of these games the Patriots were gifted wins. It seems you're trying to play down just how good Brady and the Patriots have been over the last 12 years. Since you think the Tuck Rule is what lead the New England winning their first SB Title (never mind the fact that they had to go on the road and beat a good Pittsburgh team in the AFC title game), you could also then argue without 2 crazy catches (and a drop by Welker), Brady would have 2 more titles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top