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View Poll Results: QB Kneel Unfair?
It is fair / Keep it the way it is 20 86.96%
It is unfair / Change it somehow 3 13.04%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,467 posts, read 15,436,866 times
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NARFALICIOUS

Understand - no football fan, player, coach, etc. has a problem with the QB kneel down at the end of the game.

It is the appropriate strategy for end of game victory situations. See below...

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Old 12-02-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,196,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
In baseball, they don't exchange "possessions" based on each play, they exchange when 3 outs are done, that's different entirely.

In football, if the team is forced to run a play, there is a chance to get the ball back.

I guess I get your point, if the winning team has the ball in the last ~2:00 minutes, that's kinda like the bottom of the 9th.
Just by forcing them to snap the ball there's a chance for the defense to get the ball back, namely if the snap is fumbled. The chance is miniscule, and forcing them to actually run a play instead of kneeling is nearly equally miniscule if the proper precautions are taken by the winning/possessing team. Basically the only thing that would change is what "safe" run-down tactic they use. The net result will be the same 99% of the time -- namely, the clock will wind down with no drama.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:14 PM
 
16,525 posts, read 20,972,483 times
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Can't rep Drob4jc right now, but it's coming!

Turn back the clock to 1978. Three major networks, no internet, no ESPN, NFL channel, and the kazillion sports sites from Deadspin to Bleacher Report to SB Nation to what have you.

Regarding the three major players involved, it's not what Larry Csonka is especially known for or for that matter Herman Edwards. If you're Joe Picarcik, heh, it's the game and game decision from hell. And after that game ended, that play was shown for days and days and days afterwards on local sports channels, The NFL Today's pregame half hour show (Brent Mussberger, Irv Cross, Jimmy "Greek" Snyder), and countless sports magazines. IMO from that point forward you saw quarterbacks end the game that way. Maybe not EVERY single time, but close to it.

It is one of the most famous plays in NFL history that a person does NOT want to be associated with. And it was NY Giant assistant coach Bob Gibson who wound up going down the road regarding this final play call.

Just my opinion, but I've always had another memory regarding this game/moment. And that is "Old Line" NFL. And it doesn't get any more "Old Line" than The Philadelphia Eagles and the New York Giants, two franchises that go back over eight decades in the history of the league. These two franchises have had a rivalry amongst the biggest in the history of the league. At that time, Philadelphia's last NFL Championship was in 1960, the Giants in 1956. But they represented the NFL well until about 1964 when the wheels went off the Giants franchise regarding consecutive winning seasons, Philadelphia a few years later. And from 1973 to 1977 they were just bad football clubs-bad. Mention Allie Sherman to long time Giants fans and Joe Kuharich to Eagles fans and watch their blood pressure zoom skyward.

From that game forward Philadelphia finished that season on a positive note and two years later went to their first super bowl, going up against the Oakland Raiders. New York? It was even tougher being a fan than before as it took another 4 seasons to become a factor again when Bill Parcells took the head coaching job for the Giants.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 12-02-2013 at 04:43 PM..
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:24 PM
 
5,296 posts, read 2,692,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
NARFALICIOUS

Understand - no football fan, player, coach, etc. has a problem with the QB kneel down at the end of the game.

It is the appropriate strategy for end of game victory situations. See below...

Wow! Nothing explains why the kneel down is so important as that video does. Thanks. I'm actually just surprised that quarterbacks didn't do kneel downs to kill the game off before that.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,723 posts, read 11,546,947 times
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Wow! Thanks for sharing, awesome! Larry Csonka, haven't heard his name in awhile! Herm Edwards, I like him, not a big fan of ESPN, but enjoy his commentary.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Emmaus, PA
3,151 posts, read 2,192,662 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
Hello. I am not the biggest football fan, more of a basketball fan, but I watch pro/college football every now and then, and I've watched my share of full NFL games this season. So if I seem noob, forgive me.

One thing that has irked me for a while and has re-irked me this Thanksgiving weekend is the QB kneel. With more than enough time (~2:00 minutes) to go the length of the field if needed, it's very non-exciting to have to sit there and let the winning team run out the clock when it's a close game.
In my opinion, there shouldn't be any QB kneels in the last 2 minutes of the first half or the end of the game. Moreso at the end of the game, since that's where it really matters.

Counterpoints: I'm sure the QB can toss off to a receiver or a tailback for the kneel...Not sure how this can be played out, maybe prohibit intentional kneel downs by any player for a set amount of seconds or completely unless they reach or pass the line of scrimmage?

Thoughts?
To Philadelphia Eagles fans, Herman Edwards is a lot more famous for his play on the football field than for his coaching of the Jets or for his announcing.
I suggest you look up the "Miracle in the Meadowlands" and see what happens when you don't kneel down.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
6,540 posts, read 4,489,472 times
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So, on 1 hand we can have the QB run a screen to the RB on our own 5 yard line up 2 points with 10 seconds left "just to run a play" because really what could possibly go wrong?? It's not like the pass could get intercepted, the RB/QB fumbles, the RB/QB get injured. On the other hand we can kneel where the only thing that can possibly go wrong is a bad exchange between the center and QB on the kneel down and even that is pretty impossible. Why do you think Jim Harbough declined a safety last year, even though it would've put his team up 9 instead of 7 like it was?? Because it's a lot easier to lose a game on a kickoff/than onsides kick attempt then it is when you have the QB kneeldown.
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,222,778 times
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Funny, my son asked me a similar question just this past weekend. He doesn't like the kneel down either and asked my why they do it..

I simply said, 'go Google Joe Pisarcik..!
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 7,274,031 times
Reputation: 37474
You're confusing 'unfair' and 'boring'.

A rule requiring a team not to play with the conservatism that the game situation warrants would be idiotic. A quarterback kneel-down penalizes the offense - the team loses a down and yardage. If a team has put itself in a situation where it is preferable to accept such penalties, so be it. Holding penalties are boring. Pass interference penalties are boring. Spiking the ball to stop the clock is boring. Running out of bounds to protect the ball is boring. Fair catches are boring. Except, that in the context of effective strategy, these things aren't really boring - they are the implementation of strategies designed to win a game.

If you're not judging a play based on its context within the game, then you should find something other than a competitive sport to amuse yourself.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:24 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,073,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
Hello. I am not the biggest football fan, more of a basketball fan, but I watch pro/college football every now and then, and I've watched my share of full NFL games this season. So if I seem noob, forgive me.

One thing that has irked me for a while and has re-irked me this Thanksgiving weekend is the QB kneel. With more than enough time (~2:00 minutes) to go the length of the field if needed, it's very non-exciting to have to sit there and let the winning team run out the clock when it's a close game.
In my opinion, there shouldn't be any QB kneels in the last 2 minutes of the first half or the end of the game. Moreso at the end of the game, since that's where it really matters.

Counterpoints: I'm sure the QB can toss off to a receiver or a tailback for the kneel...Not sure how this can be played out, maybe prohibit intentional kneel downs by any player for a set amount of seconds or completely unless they reach or pass the line of scrimmage?

Thoughts?

IMO it's up to the other team to try and make sure that this situation doesn't arise. In other words, if they played a better game, it could be them that is kneeling and celebrating a victory.
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