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Old 02-03-2014, 06:28 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,614,812 times
Reputation: 3225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
What made it tough for Manning, and what gives Colin K an advantage is running ability.

Seahawks play a hybrid zone/man defense in the secondary. There was one play where the defender was coming one guy while watching Manning - and as soon as the ball was thrown, peeled back to cover the intended receiver (who was open at the time) and broke up the play. Impressive. A bigger arm probably would have gotten the ball in there. But the same arm and scheme and timing produced record numbers these year. Seahawks figured it out and have the athletes to disrupt the Broncos scheme. Unfortunately, my 13 year old is faster than Manning, so he is a sitting duck for an effective pass rush, and covered receivers. Of course, if he could run, people would complain that he runs too much.
Colin Kaepernick's got the running ability, but he hasn't developed Manning's ability to check receivers off, and that's ultimately what killed the 49ers. But here's something else that has to be agreed upon: San Francisco's receiving corps is much better than Denver's and that was finally exposed last night. Seriously, Crabtree, Davis, and Boldin - every single one of those guys is capable of doing something with it once they put it in their mitts. The same cannot be said for Welker, Decker, and the other no-names on Denver's roster, with the exception of Thomas. And Thomas had some major drops yesterday, so he was a non-factor.

I think the QBs that have the best chance right now of beating Seattle are Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Andrew Luck - I'd say Russell Wilson, too, if he could play for another team. I know people will scratch their head for my adding Brees to that list. He obviously lost to them twice already, but with more complete personnel on both sides of the ball, he'd have a shot. Rodgers could give Seattle trouble on a team with more balance. Andrew Luck's thought of as a pocket passer but if you watch his games you know he's a threat to take off for 15 yards - mixes it up as well as any QB out there.

Manning's still a legend in my book. I don't think this loss says anything about him that we didn't already know. Maybe one of the absolute best at diagnosing defenses and calling plays, and in his prime, and with better personnel, perhaps more accurate and efficient in spreading the ball around. But he's mostly a conventional Dan Marino, Troy Aikman-like QB. They live and die in the pocket, which makes them vulnerable against teams that are athletic and get after the QB and also drop back in coverage.

But all this talk about QBs is enough. I think a better discussion is where the Seahawks defense ranks in recent memory. I'd put them up there with the 2002 Buccaneers and the 1983 Raiders. Yesterday's game actually reminded me a lot of the 1983/84 Super Bowl: a seemingly unstoppable household name offense rolls into the Super Bowl to take on a less flashy squad of blue collar roughnecks - and gets hammered. The Raiders beat the Skins 38-9 in that one and the Hawks beat the Broncos 43-8 in this one.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,348,277 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
San Francisco's receiving corps is much better than Denver's and that was finally exposed last night. Seriously, Crabtree, Davis, and Boldin
One guy who must have missed the awesome pick six Sherman had on Vernon Davis.

Richard Sherman 4th qtr pick against Kaepernick - YouTube
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,295 posts, read 2,153,766 times
Reputation: 3109
You could have put Montana or Unitas in there and Denver wasn't going to beat Seattle. Not with the way that defense played. Brady would have lost just as bad.

With that said, the loss clearly tarnishes Manning's legacy a bit. Like it or not, Super Bowl wins are very important when evaluating a quarterback's career.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Southern NH
2,532 posts, read 4,964,063 times
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Hall of famer, yes. Greatest of all time, no. His record in the post season is under 500. He is not on par with Tom Brady or Joe Montana. He's in the next level with Favre, Elway, Marino.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,295 posts, read 2,153,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
Hall of famer, yes. Greatest of all time, no. His record in the post season is under 500. He is not on par with Tom Brady or Joe Montana. He's in the next level with Favre, Elway, Marino.
If you are only talking about postseason, sure, but Brady is not a better quarterback than Elway, Favre, or Marino, IMO.

Edit: I see you're from New Hampshire, so of course you think Montana is the only quarterback equal to Brady.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,348,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
You could have put Montana or Unitas in there and Denver wasn't going to beat Seattle. Not with the way that defense played. Brady would have lost just as bad.

With that said, the loss clearly tarnishes Manning's legacy a bit. Like it or not, Super Bowl wins are very important when evaluating a quarterback's career.
Unitas couldn't even beat Joe Namath. Who, by the way, threw more picks than TDs in his career.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,488 posts, read 5,952,316 times
Reputation: 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
I'm sorry, but this is weak. Nobody was saying anything like this yesterday or all year for that matter. Manning still had quite a bit left in his tank. Sure, maybe he's no longer in his prime, but that could be said about just about any player that's taken more than three or four years of NFL punishment at just about any position.

No, what helped the Seahawks is something that apparently didn't help the other 30 or so teams in the league - great defensive talent and coaching. That's it. Period.
Um you are aware of Sherman's comments last week right? It was in all the papers:

"His arm, however, is another story. His passes will be accurate and on time, but he throws ducks".

It was a legitimate point and one of the main reasons I picked the Hawks to win. Peyton Manning is no longer capable of throwing that 15 yard out with the velocity that is needed against a defense like Seattle's. He simply does not have the zip he once had, that has been obvious to everyone for a year now.

So it forced the Broncos to run a short passing game and the Seahawks had the players and game plan to be ready for it. How many intermediate passes did you see them throw on Sunday? Hardly any and there is a reason for that. Just use the breakup on the mid range pass to Welker as an example. The ball hung and it gave a defense with tremendous team speed the split second that was needed to break up the pass. Aaron Rogers throws that ball and it's probably completed.

I'm not claiming the Jags defense could have stopped them, as you said the Hawks had the players and coaches to deal with this offense. But please do not try to tell me that Peyton has not lost arm strength after the neck surgery and that this was not a factor on Sunday because it was pretty clearly the case.

Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 02-04-2014 at 04:42 AM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:02 AM
 
513 posts, read 575,142 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
Colin Kaepernick's got the running ability, but he hasn't developed Manning's ability to check receivers off, and that's ultimately what killed the 49ers. But here's something else that has to be agreed upon: San Francisco's receiving corps is much better than Denver's and that was finally exposed last night. Seriously, Crabtree, Davis, and Boldin - every single one of those guys is capable of doing something with it once they put it in their mitts. The same cannot be said for Welker, Decker, and the other no-names on Denver's roster, with the exception of Thomas. And Thomas had some major drops yesterday, so he was a non-factor.

I think the QBs that have the best chance right now of beating Seattle are Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Andrew Luck - I'd say Russell Wilson, too, if he could play for another team. I know people will scratch their head for my adding Brees to that list. He obviously lost to them twice already, but with more complete personnel on both sides of the ball, he'd have a shot. Rodgers could give Seattle trouble on a team with more balance. Andrew Luck's thought of as a pocket passer but if you watch his games you know he's a threat to take off for 15 yards - mixes it up as well as any QB out there.

Manning's still a legend in my book. I don't think this loss says anything about him that we didn't already know. Maybe one of the absolute best at diagnosing defenses and calling plays, and in his prime, and with better personnel, perhaps more accurate and efficient in spreading the ball around. But he's mostly a conventional Dan Marino, Troy Aikman-like QB. They live and die in the pocket, which makes them vulnerable against teams that are athletic and get after the QB and also drop back in coverage.

But all this talk about QBs is enough. I think a better discussion is where the Seahawks defense ranks in recent memory. I'd put them up there with the 2002 Buccaneers and the 1983 Raiders. Yesterday's game actually reminded me a lot of the 1983/84 Super Bowl: a seemingly unstoppable household name offense rolls into the Super Bowl to take on a less flashy squad of blue collar roughnecks - and gets hammered. The Raiders beat the Skins 38-9 in that one and the Hawks beat the Broncos 43-8 in this one.
Wow, I strongly disagree with your first paragraph. Denver with the exception of maybe a healthy Atl team has the best offensive weapons in the game. Wes is the best slot receiver ever. DT is a right around a top 5 wr and the other Thomas and Decker are solid as well.

DT> Crabtree (easily)
Decker> Manningham (pretty easily)
Wes> Boldsin ( especailly at this point in Boldins career)

I would agree Davis is better than J. Thomas though

I still have Peyton in my top 5 at the end of the day though
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,637 posts, read 4,232,451 times
Reputation: 4591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever View Post
Unitas couldn't even beat Joe Namath. Who, by the way, threw more picks than TDs in his career.
You do realize that Earl Morrall was the Colts starter for Super Bowl III, right.. not Johnny Unitas! Unitas came in the game late in the 3rd quarter after Morrall had already thrown 3 interceptions..
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:16 AM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,250,382 times
Reputation: 32421
No longer? He never was to begin with.
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