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Old 02-04-2014, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,352,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
You do realize that Earl Morrall was the Colts starter for Super Bowl III, right.. not Johnny Unitas! Unitas came in the game late in the 3rd quarter after Morrall had already thrown 3 interceptions..
And had as much luck as Peyton against Seattle.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Um you are aware of Sherman's comments last week right? It was in all the papers:

"His arm, however, is another story. His passes will be accurate and on time, but he throws ducks".

It was a legitimate point and one of the main reasons I picked the Hawks to win. Peyton Manning is no longer capable of throwing that 15 yard out with the velocity that is needed against a defense like Seattle's. He simply does not have the zip he once had, that has been obvious to everyone for a year now.

So it forced the Broncos to run a short passing game and the Seahawks had the players and game plan to be ready for it. How many intermediate passes did you see them throw on Sunday? Hardly any and there is a reason for that. Just use the breakup on the mid range pass to Welker as an example. The ball hung and it gave a defense with tremendous team speed the split second that was needed to break up the pass. Aaron Rogers throws that ball and it's probably completed.

I'm not claiming the Jags defense could have stopped them, as you said the Hawks had the players and coaches to deal with this offense. But please do not try to tell me that Peyton has not lost arm strength after the neck surgery and that this was not a factor on Sunday because it was pretty clearly the case.
Sure, he's lost some arm strength, but he's also gained intelligence. Peyton might have had better arm strength when he was a younger quarterback, but he's probably in a lot of ways a better quarterback. And he still has pretty good zip on the ball. My point is, what he's lost in one area, he's been able to compensate for in other areas. That's how athletics works. Great athletes adapt. The true indicator of decline will be when his reaction times slow, when he's no longer able to evade blitzes, when he's no longer able to get passes to the receivers who are within his normal passing range of 10-15 yards quickly enough to beat out defenders. He can still do that. You could point out that Peyton did in fact have problems in the pocket, but that's the way Peyton Manning has always been. He's always lived and died in the pocket. He's more Dan Marino than Joe Montana. I won't deny that he's probably lost a step, but he was more than capable of beating Seattle if he had had the right personnel around him. He could have used more athletic and powerful receivers, and he really could have used better tacklers on defense.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:10 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,617,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.M.M View Post
Wow, I strongly disagree with your first paragraph. Denver with the exception of maybe a healthy Atl team has the best offensive weapons in the game. Wes is the best slot receiver ever. DT is a right around a top 5 wr and the other Thomas and Decker are solid as well.

DT> Crabtree (easily)
Decker> Manningham (pretty easily)
Wes> Boldsin ( especailly at this point in Boldins career)

I would agree Davis is better than J. Thomas though

I still have Peyton in my top 5 at the end of the day though
My point was all of the guys for SF, save Manningham, are a threat to take it to the house. Crabtree's less of a threat to do that, but Davis and Boldin are going to get some serious yards after the catch. They're also bigger, more physical receivers who are more capable of getting open space in the end zone, as is Crabtree. Any other defender than Sherman back there and the 49ers are in the Super Bowl - alas, we go back to Kaepernick's development as a quarterback and knowing which receivers are open.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:38 AM
 
513 posts, read 575,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
My point was all of the guys for SF, save Manningham, are a threat to take it to the house. Crabtree's less of a threat to do that, but Davis and Boldin are going to get some serious yards after the catch. They're also bigger, more physical receivers who are more capable of getting open space in the end zone, as is Crabtree. Any other defender than Sherman back there and the 49ers are in the Super Bowl - alas, we go back to Kaepernick's development as a quarterback and knowing which receivers are open.
DT is 6'3 and 230 with 4.4 speed. I've seen him take countless screens 50 to 60 yards this year. DT is BY FAR better before and after the catch than anyone on SF, in fact he was the #1 wr in yac this year. Decker (who is also 6'3 and 215 pounds) and Welker both return punts and are excellent is open space. Davis is really the only threat to break it to the house on SF. I am not even sure if you are being serious?

I'm not arguing Kaeps development, I agree he is still learning. However, you said SF has better offensive weapons and that is has to be agreed upon. I disagree strongly. It is not even close, Denver has the better offensive weapons
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,352,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
Sure, he's lost some arm strength, but he's also gained intelligence. Peyton might have had better arm strength when he was a younger quarterback, but he's probably in a lot of ways a better quarterback. And he still has pretty good zip on the ball. My point is, what he's lost in one area, he's been able to compensate for in other areas. That's how athletics works. Great athletes adapt. The true indicator of decline will be when his reaction times slow, when he's no longer able to evade blitzes, when he's no longer able to get passes to the receivers who are within his normal passing range of 10-15 yards quickly enough to beat out defenders. He can still do that. You could point out that Peyton did in fact have problems in the pocket, but that's the way Peyton Manning has always been. He's always lived and died in the pocket. He's more Dan Marino than Joe Montana. I won't deny that he's probably lost a step, but he was more than capable of beating Seattle if he had had the right personnel around him. He could have used more athletic and powerful receivers, and he really could have used better tacklers on defense.
What if he had the O-line of Carolina? Certainly would have changed the score, even if Seattle still won. Everybody harped on the offensive weapons, but Seattle showed they didn't matter when the O-line couldn't block effectively.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:57 AM
 
Location: South Tampa, Maui, Paris
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History is not on Manning's side. He has a history of choking in the playoffs and SB. But this loss was on the whole team and coaches.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:16 AM
 
174 posts, read 258,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I think we need to just step back and take a breath before sending Manning to XFL status because of what happened yesterday.

He can only complete passes to receivers who are open. If he doesn't have sufficient time to find a receiver, is that his fault? What could he have done better yesterday based on the way the Seahawks played defense?

He still completed 34 of 49 passes, which is a good percentage - they were just all short because the Seahawk defense was that good. He didn't do a Tebow and complete 3 of 17 passes for three quarters.

He is 37 and threw 55 TDs and got to the Super Bowl. He still belongs in the conversation for the greatest of all time. Super Bowls are won by teams, not individuals.
I was amused by the post-Super Bowl anger and vehemence of the sports pundits who had been promoting Manning as the greatest of all time for the past several weeks. It was as though his performance personally offended them, and now they were saying things like "he can never again be seriously considered as among the top five." But let's face it: his performance definitely was un-great, and it exposed the myth that he is some genius who can develop a game plan to cope with anything. (I'll admit it: Toward the end of the game, I was thinking "This is so bad, I wonder what Tim Tebow would have done in this situation?") We all tend to tilt in favor of those who are currently playing in all sports, but "greatest of all time" covers a lot of territory and I honestly don't think Manning ever belonged in the conversation. I can't stand Tiger Woods, but his place in that discussion in golf is head and shoulders above Manning's status among quarterbacks.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:10 PM
 
6,573 posts, read 9,095,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede View Post
I was amused by the post-Super Bowl anger and vehemence of the sports pundits who had been promoting Manning as the greatest of all time for the past several weeks. It was as though his performance personally offended them, and now they were saying things like "he can never again be seriously considered as among the top five.
Can anyone name me a top five QB who would have done better against that Seahawks defense?
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,352,695 times
Reputation: 1561
Here's what amazes me. First, the rush to crown the Seahawks as a dynasty. Second, the rush to dis the Broncos as stumblebums. Yeh, it was the biggest game of the season. But it was a GAME. The Patriots have been humbled in a game. Does that mean Belichick's image is totally phony? No. Means every single team can have a bad game. In fact, I'd say having one is practically a certainty. I would like to see Seattle three-peat. But I'm not losing my mind if they get stopped during the playoffs in 2015. It's sport, man. Winning and losing come with the territory. If a team COULDN'T lose, a lot of people who now tune in would spend their Sundays another way.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:27 PM
 
5,306 posts, read 2,710,138 times
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I think most objective people would still put Peyton as one of the best QBs in the game. The issue is that the talk before the game was if he wins then he may be the undisputed best. Now you can't make that argument without a lot of head wins. He's still on mount Rushmore but he's up there with several other QB's too and not by himself (ie. Montana, Unitas, Brady, Brees, Favre, Young, etc.).
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