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Old 02-08-2014, 09:14 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,539 posts, read 2,061,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
If Peyton Manning can get all the credit when his team wins, then he can get all the blame when his team loses, as far as I'm concerned.

He's like a robot: intelligence, efficiency and precision all in abundance, but totally devoid of instinct. He can study film all week, observe the nuances of his opponents, find all sorts of ways to exploit a defense, and envision the flow of the game in his mind, but the moment something happens that he doesn't foresee, whether it's a teammate screwing up, a defense giving him a look he hasn't seen before, or even just him misreading the defense, he has zero ability to improvise, and that's his undoing. He's probably the most intelligent QB in NFL history, and his preparation and work ethic are superb, but some things in football you just can't prepare for, and that's when he crumbles. When everything is orderly, there's nobody better, but chaos consumes him.

When it matters most, give me a QB who can't read defenses blindfolded but knows how to make a play when **** happens.

Agreed. I think in terms of pure talent, he's better than his brother but maybe not quite as natural as his father. But both Archie and Eli have that "it" factor where they can make cake out of chaos. Archie played on awful teams, so he never got to shine on a big state, but Eli is probably more like him than Peyton.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:27 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,539 posts, read 2,061,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
But he's mostly a conventional Dan Marino, Troy Aikman-like QB. They live and die in the pocket, which makes them vulnerable against teams that are athletic and get after the QB and also drop back in coverage.

But all this talk about QBs is enough. I think a better discussion is where the Seahawks defense ranks in recent memory. I'd put them up there with the 2002 Buccaneers and the 1983 Raiders. Yesterday's game actually reminded me a lot of the 1983/84 Super Bowl: a seemingly unstoppable household name offense rolls into the Super Bowl to take on a less flashy squad of blue collar roughnecks - and gets hammered. The Raiders beat the Skins 38-9 in that one and the Hawks beat the Broncos 43-8 in this one.
Aikman was an odd duck. When I watch old film of him prior to 94/95, he could actually move quite well when he wanted to. At some point in the mid-90's he became a complete statue. I saw highlights of him when he was at Oklahoma (before breaking his leg and transferring to UCLA), and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Personally I'd compare Seattle to the early 90's Cowboys. A coach that won a national championship in college, and used that knowledge to draft successfully in the NFL. A young, fast defense that is physical and populated with mostly no-names except for one controversial star (Charles Haley meet Richard Sherman). A QB that is asked to make smart decisions, has a strong arm but doesn't take unnecessary risks with the football. Both teams view the 49ers as the team that stands between them and immortality. A punishing inside running game that takes pressure off the rest of the offense.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:32 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,539 posts, read 2,061,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
The stats mean nothing. Denver played against cupcake defenses - one of the points I made before the Super Bowl was actually played. Denver padded stats. SF's receivers are more physical and more difficult to cover than Denver's, and that's a fact. Don't care what point totals Denver had coming into the game because, as we saw, once they played a real defense, they scored...8.
Romo and the Cowboys put up 48 against those Broncos; Tony was 25/35 506 yards and 5 TD's (1 INT in the normal TR fashion).

If Romo avoided the pick on that last drive, he would have probably set the record for most passing yards in a single game (Dallas was backed up deep in their own territory).
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:32 AM
 
5,364 posts, read 6,060,615 times
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The media was getting ready to give him ALLLLL the credit if they won.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
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I'd flip Brady and Brees.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Idaho
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Quote:
Brady won 3 straight... then lost 2 straight to Eli. Is his legacy tarnished?

The difference is that Brady gave his teams leads at the end of each of those games to see his defense give it up. Manning threw a very ugly pick six in the first loss to seal their fate, and then another atrocious one before halftime against the Seahawks....then came out in the second half and completely quit.



Quote:
Yeh, all parties seem to want to project this single game to galactic proportions.
People wanted to do the same thing a few months ago when they beat up on a crap Titans team...."OMG, Peyton can play in the cold after all! He is the undisputed greatest ever!" It goes both ways.



Quote:
Brady is not a better quarterback than Elway, Favre, or Marino, IMO.
LOL, ever see Favre's career INT numbers? Ever hear that Elway couldn't win a Super Bowl until his team was 20 million over the salary cap?



Quote:
Dan Marino is one of the best ever and mentioned on many list but no one talks about his lack of rings.
Nobody talks about it? Really? Why do you think he is at the few of very few Top QBs of all-time list? He was incredibly gifted, but couldn't win the big one.



Look Peyton is a terrific QB, but face facts, in the biggest situations, the most important position on the team is supposed to be a leader....which he was against the Seahawks. He quit in second half and his teammates followed his lead. Think Montana, Brady, Favre, Marino, any other great QB would just give up on his team in the second half of a Super Bowl like that? Especially is they were one of the main reasons they were losing?

He has a lot of skill, but his attitude reminds me of a spoiled kid, the second things don't go his way, he is a completely different person. Get beat down by the Pats in the playoffs? Just get Bill Polian on the competition committee to change all of the passing rules in your favor! Throw a moronic pick six right before halftime in the Super Bowl? Just give up! To me.....that, more so then any of his failures, is the reason that he can never be the best ever.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
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In some cases, Peyton was "gifted" in that his team gave him "gifts" of targets that other QBs didn't have. No way to diminish his relative record for that. So it comes down to the estimates of individual fans. Be interesting to see if he immediately goes into the Hall the year he is eligible. By that time, other new QBs will play under similar circumstances and may surpass him.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Southern NH
2,532 posts, read 4,988,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
Agreed. I think in terms of pure talent, he's better than his brother but maybe not quite as natural as his father. But both Archie and Eli have that "it" factor where they can make cake out of chaos. Archie played on awful teams, so he never got to shine on a big state, but Eli is probably more like him than Peyton.
Archie Manning was a mediocre QB. 125 TD and 173 INT for the career. 67.1 QB rating... He played on 3 teams and never had a winning record in 13 years.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
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Pretty awesome family though!
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:29 AM
 
9,035 posts, read 16,543,939 times
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I keep hearing about Mannings 12 playoff losses

I think this deserves some context - as 12 playoff losses is pretty fantastic when you think about it

The guy has taken snaps in 15 seasons - 13 of them have led to the playoffs and 3 to the SB

He's been in the SB for 20% of his seasons as a professional - despite the losses that is pretty good

He's been in the playoffs 87% of the seasons where he's played - again, a really strong number

Only 3 players have started as many playoff games and only 5 have won more games

Brett Favre played 19 seasons as a starter and went to the playoffs 12 times - with 1 championship and 2 SB appearances (1 win) he comes in at 11 losses

Montana, IMO, is the benchmark - 11 appearances, 4 SB wins, 7 playoff losses ..... he just didn't hold up from a health standpoint to log as many seasons as others ... but he sure made the most of them

While I understand some context about how you rank someone at the top of the heap, what I tend to be hearing more of is a diminishing tone

I think it can be a little bit of a spoiled POV to really rag on the accomplishment that it takes to lose 12 playoff games in a career

As a fan of a team that went over 20 years without a playoff win - I would take the 15 years of his career, playoff "failure" and all
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