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Old 02-03-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,493 posts, read 15,453,012 times
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I think we need to just step back and take a breath before sending Manning to XFL status because of what happened yesterday.

He can only complete passes to receivers who are open. If he doesn't have sufficient time to find a receiver, is that his fault? What could he have done better yesterday based on the way the Seahawks played defense?

He still completed 34 of 49 passes, which is a good percentage - they were just all short because the Seahawk defense was that good. He didn't do a Tebow and complete 3 of 17 passes for three quarters.

He is 37 and threw 55 TDs and got to the Super Bowl. He still belongs in the conversation for the greatest of all time. Super Bowls are won by teams, not individuals.

Last edited by DRob4JC; 02-03-2014 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,723 posts, read 11,550,474 times
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Great post! There are times I would love to the know ages of some of the people posting comments. I have said so many times it isn't just about SB wins, not by a long shot. I don't get the bashing of QBs because their team did not win the SB! If a team gets to the playoffs and doesn't win, people hold it against the QB for a team sport.

Some teams haven't been to the playoffs in years, some are perpetual contenders, there 5 years in a row, but get bashed because they don't win the big one. Other teams are inconsistent in the playoffs one year, not the next, in again, etc., it isn't easy and to lay blame on the QB what for??? Regular season accomplishments should count for a great deal period.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:08 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,609,608 times
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It's fair to use yesterday's performance against him if we're debating THE greatest of all time, but not if we it's a matter of him being among the greatest of all time.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Abilene, Texas
8,746 posts, read 7,740,948 times
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Reps to you OP! I agree completely, Manning is still a great quaterback. I don't think any QB would have done any better against that Seattle defense yesterday.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:33 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,609,608 times
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I do think some QBs would have done better against Seattle - Elway, Montana, Young, and possibly Favre on a Holmgren coached team. Even Aaron Rodgers. Not so much because I think they have had better careers but because their mobility is an attribute Manning doesn't have. Even so it would have been hard for anyone in any era. Seattles pass coverage ranks up there with the absolute best ever. The pass rush isn't quite as good but they're pretty solid considering they don't all load the box. Anyone without a solid core of offensive skill players would have had trouble against this sort of team
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:49 PM
 
513 posts, read 574,253 times
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You seem to be exaggerating as much as anyone holding the game against him.

I have not read all the threads, but I am pretty sure no one claimed he should be sent to the XFL
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,222 posts, read 17,963,194 times
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If Peyton Manning can get all the credit when his team wins, then he can get all the blame when his team loses, as far as I'm concerned.

He's like a robot: intelligence, efficiency and precision all in abundance, but totally devoid of instinct. He can study film all week, observe the nuances of his opponents, find all sorts of ways to exploit a defense, and envision the flow of the game in his mind, but the moment something happens that he doesn't foresee, whether it's a teammate screwing up, a defense giving him a look he hasn't seen before, or even just him misreading the defense, he has zero ability to improvise, and that's his undoing. He's probably the most intelligent QB in NFL history, and his preparation and work ethic are superb, but some things in football you just can't prepare for, and that's when he crumbles. When everything is orderly, there's nobody better, but chaos consumes him.

When it matters most, give me a QB who can't read defenses blindfolded but knows how to make a play when **** happens.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,545,592 times
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Default He's still one of the greats

Manny is one of the greatest QBs ever. He is an exciting player to watch, and seems to be revolutionizing the game with his intelligence and style of play. One can say that after Manning, the QB position will never again be quite the same. Defenses are read on-the-fly, and plays are modified in real-time. Incredible.

Even with this game, he remains one of my favorite QBs ever. He's also an exceptionally classy and dignified human being, someone with great character.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
2,533 posts, read 3,956,657 times
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I don't agree with the whole "tarnishing his legacy" when it comes to his last 2 Super Bowl losses after beating the Bears.

Brady won 3 straight... then lost 2 straight to Eli. Is his legacy tarnished?

I would say that if I had to choose a Manning for a Super Bowl game I'd choose Eli due to the fact Peyton seems to get it done during the season but not the playoffs... and Eli is the opposite.

LOL
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,462 posts, read 5,930,681 times
Reputation: 16156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
If Peyton Manning can get all the credit when his team wins, then he can get all the blame when his team loses, as far as I'm concerned.

He's like a robot: intelligence, efficiency and precision all in abundance, but totally devoid of instinct. He can study film all week, observe the nuances of his opponents, find all sorts of ways to exploit a defense, and envision the flow of the game in his mind, but the moment something happens that he doesn't foresee, whether it's a teammate screwing up, a defense giving him a look he hasn't seen before, or even just him misreading the defense, he has zero ability to improvise, and that's his undoing. He's probably the most intelligent QB in NFL history, and his preparation and work ethic are superb, but some things in football you just can't prepare for, and that's when he crumbles. When everything is orderly, there's nobody better, but chaos consumes him.

When it matters most, give me a QB who can't read defenses blindfolded but knows how to make a play when **** happens.

Exactly. I didn't see this thread and have been making my argument in the Seahawks thread.

As you said if he gets the credit when things go great he has to take responsibility when he does not play well. And sure it was a good/great defense but let's be honest, he did not play well. Certainly not for a QB as great as he is, and he is no doubt an all time great. Just not at the top IMO and never will be. Yesterday should not diminish his greatness and move him down this imaginary list. But if he had played great and had won, well then you have a pretty good argument for moving him up possibly to the top. But it didn't happen and his spot somewhere in the top 5 is secure but he will never be at the top IMO

I just think it's not so unfair to separate the best from all the all time greats by looking at performances when it matters the most. There's a reason Derek Jeter has his legacy and A-Rod has his, and I'm not talking about drugs. A-Rod's numbers blow away Jeter's but we all know what happened in the bottom of the 8th in October. Montana had rings and SB MVPs and Marino does not and that's why Montana is nearly always listed ahead of Marino, as he should be. Sure he never faced a defense like we saw yesterday but he should not be punished for that. Bottom line is Montana never had a performance like we saw yesterday in a Super Bowl.

Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 02-03-2014 at 03:17 PM..
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