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Old 04-20-2014, 09:10 PM
Status: "Get off my cloud !" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,108 posts, read 4,958,807 times
Reputation: 4179

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Well if this is case, they should just make the touchdown 7 points(and you could go for 2 and if you missed get 6). I would be ok with that solution. I do know that the extra point is just a wasted play that takes up time as it is.
But the bolded is false, when extra points were kicked many years ago they were far from automatic. IN 1974 the percentage of extra points made were 90%. That is much lower than today, and they were even lower when the extra point was put in the 1930-1940s.
I would like to see some of these statistics your quoting, but as far as to what is a give me, 90% (if that is accurate), may have been thought of as automatic back in the day. Also I'm sure many of the better teams did hit in the high 90 percent range even then. There are definitely more good kickers today than in past eras.

Should we eliminate 20 yard FG's as well ? Lets just award teams who chose to take 3 points who reach inside their opponents 3 or 2 yard line ? I would be in favor of making the extra point from the nearest hash mark from where they scored instead of the middle of the field, or something to that effect , but moving the EP to the 20 or whatever is just ridicules, even silly. Plus it would remove any possibility of the fake for a 2 point conversion

The NFL is at the height of its popularity why tamper with such a successful game ?

BTW the NFL experimented with doing away with the EP once before in the 1968 preseason and nobody liked the result then either, this is not a new idea
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:16 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,070,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
I would like to see some of these statistics your quoting, but as far as to what is a give me, 90% (if that is accurate), may have been thought of as automatic back in the day. Also I'm sure many of the better teams did hit in the high 90 percent range even then. There are definitely more good kickers today than in past eras.

Should we eliminate 20 yard FG's as well ? Lets just award teams who chose to take 3 points who reach inside their opponents 3 or 2 yard line ? I would be in favor of making the extra point from the nearest hash mark from where they scored instead of the middle of the field, or something to that effect , but moving the EP to the 20 or whatever is just ridicules, even silly. Plus it would remove any possibility of the fake for a 2 point conversion

The NFL is at the height of its popularity why tamper with such a successful game ?

BTW the NFL experimented with doing away with the EP once before in the 1968 preseason and nobody liked the result then either, this is not a new idea
Reading the link more carefully, in 1932 the article says extra points were made 67% of the time. As to the bolded nobody is making that request for that rule change, so not sure what your point is.
Bottom line is, is that a the extra point is a complete waste of time. There is no reason to have a play that ends the same way every time, with no variation ever. It should either be changed or gotton rid of completely.
Moving the extra point back is completely reasonable. And who cares about the fake 2 point conversion? How often do you see that maybe 2 or 3 times a season at most?

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ype=blogs&_r=0
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:58 AM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 767,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Well if this is case, they should just make the touchdown 7 points(and you could go for 2 and if you missed get 6). I would be ok with that solution. I do know that the extra point is just a wasted play that takes up time as it is.

You have the perfect solution. Just make a TD 7 points, forget about the extra point and for that matter forget about the 2 point conversion. One less thing to try to explain to my wife about scoring.

This will speed up the game. In fact why not give the 7 points for the TD and then just turn around and place the ball on the 20 for the other team and eliminate the kickoff, since putting the KO through the end zone has now also become routine. This will also ensure nobody gets hurt either.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:25 PM
 
Location: California
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I don't think it should be from the 30 because that would make it a 47 yarder. I think it should be a little further then it is now. Maybe from the 20 to make it a 37 yarder. Fairly makeable, but not exactly a chip shot.
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:07 PM
Status: "Get off my cloud !" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,108 posts, read 4,958,807 times
Reputation: 4179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Reading the link more carefully, in 1932 the article says extra points were made 67% of the time. As to the bolded nobody is making that request for that rule change, so not sure what your point is.
Bottom line is, is that a the extra point is a complete waste of time. There is no reason to have a play that ends the same way every time, with no variation ever. It should either be changed or gotton rid of completely.
Moving the extra point back is completely reasonable. And who cares about the fake 2 point conversion? How often do you see that maybe 2 or 3 times a season at most?

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ype=blogs&_r=0
my point is 19 and 20 yard Fg's are just as automatic as EP. If your goal is to eliminate all plays that are too "automatic" then FG's of 20 yards or less should be eliminated as well. We will just assume that they will be made award the 3 points and go to the next possession. The EP is the proverbial crossing of the I and dotting of the T. I also think the down time it causes is actually a good thing, for it allows the fans time to absorb the meaning of the last touchdown not to mention all the replays, and analysis for the TV viewer.

Again the NFL and football in general has never been more popular why tamper with a perfectly good game.

BTW in 1932 the NFL was a second rate league , the NCAA was what people thought of as football, and as EP kickers became more accurate the league has soared in popularity "coincidence" maybe , but the accuracy of kickers in general has helped the game tremendously.

Last edited by Jack Lance; 04-22-2014 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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The point is the extra point happens 10 times a game, a 20 yard field goal maybe once every 2 games. Apples and oranges.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:18 PM
 
Location: NY
9,071 posts, read 15,062,085 times
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There is one difference between the extra point and a close range FG. The team had to do something to get the ball to the verge of the goal line to try the FG through plays. Yes, scoring a TD Is doing something too, but they were already rewarded with 6 points for doing that.

I really have little issue with the EP being a gimme most of the time. If I were to make changes, I would more than likely eliminate it, and make everyone run a play for the 2 point conversion. Then, touchdowns would be 6 or 8. Since the 2 point success rate is near 50%, it would ultimately look like a scoring wash, but would give good offenses, and/or good defenses more of a say in the final score of individual games.

Really, the point of moving the EP way back is to encourage more coaches to go for 2 anyway.
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:42 AM
Status: "Get off my cloud !" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,108 posts, read 4,958,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
There is one difference between the extra point and a close range FG. The team had to do something to get the ball to the verge of the goal line to try the FG through plays. Yes, scoring a TD Is doing something too, but they were already rewarded with 6 points for doing that.

I really have little issue with the EP being a gimme most of the time. If I were to make changes, I would more than likely eliminate it, and make everyone run a play for the 2 point conversion. Then, touchdowns would be 6 or 8. Since the 2 point success rate is near 50%, it would ultimately look like a scoring wash, but would give good offenses, and/or good defenses more of a say in the final score of individual games.

Really, the point of moving the EP way back is to encourage more coaches to go for 2 anyway.
I remember when they first allowed the 2 point conversion in the NFL back in 94, teams were going for 2 according to the "chart" or whatever it was called that said if the TD puts you up by 1 then go for 2 no matter what point of the game it is ect, ect. You had teams doing this in the first quarter many times. This went on for a couple of years, but eventually people grew weary of this method because in the long run you cannot tell how the game will evolve into the 4th quarter and not converting those 2 point conversions earlier in the game would have a greater chance of coming back to haunt you than if you had just kicked the EP. Teams then gradually went back to a strategy of accumulating points and saving the 2 point conversion for later in the game if necessary. And that brings us to the reason the 2 point conversion was contrived, in the first place, and that was to avoid ties and or allow a team that is down by a wide margin to still be able to get back into the game in the late stages of the contest. I doubt that "they" are trying to encourage more 2 point conversion attempts , the whole history of the NFL has been to discourage the 2 point conversion especially in the first half of games.

What I really think this is about is to keep the NFL in the headlines during the offseason and stimulate debate about the game. Not to mention increase interest in preseason games where this exposition of elongated EP's will take place. They experimented with no EP games before and nothing has ever come of it and I doubt this will be any different .
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,485 posts, read 5,947,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
Really, the point of moving the EP way back is to encourage more coaches to go for 2 anyway.
No I think the idea is to make it less of an automatic. I don't see coaches going for 2 because they are afraid of missing the extra point from the new distance.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:51 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,070,335 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
You have the perfect solution. Just make a TD 7 points, forget about the extra point and for that matter forget about the 2 point conversion. One less thing to try to explain to my wife about scoring.

This will speed up the game. In fact why not give the 7 points for the TD and then just turn around and place the ball on the 20 for the other team and eliminate the kickoff, since putting the KO through the end zone has now also become routine. This will also ensure nobody gets hurt either.
The extra point is a rote play, the two point conversion is not. The kickoff is not. The point of sports is entertainment and excitement not routine activities that have the same results and the same actions time after time.
The fact that you can think of no reason to keep the extra point except to provide absurd examples with nothing to do with the question posed proves that you can not think of any good reason to keep the extra point.
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