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Old 04-24-2014, 04:55 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,060,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
my point is 19 and 20 yard Fg's are just as automatic as EP. If your goal is to eliminate all plays that are too "automatic" then FG's of 20 yards or less should be eliminated as well. We will just assume that they will be made award the 3 points and go to the next possession. The EP is the proverbial crossing of the I and dotting of the T. I also think the down time it causes is actually a good thing, for it allows the fans time to absorb the meaning of the last touchdown not to mention all the replays, and analysis for the TV viewer.

Again the NFL and football in general has never been more popular why tamper with a perfectly good game.

BTW in 1932 the NFL was a second rate league , the NCAA was what people thought of as football, and as EP kickers became more accurate the league has soared in popularity "coincidence" maybe , but the accuracy of kickers in general has helped the game tremendously.
That the NFL is popular is not a reason to keep a play with no other purpose than to waste time. Can you think of a good reason to keep the extra point, then to compare it some completly unrelated change that nobody has proposed and say "well if you get rid of this you have to get rid of that too(even though that's not true)". And to say well change is not good. If you can't well than that's good evidence that the extra point can be gotton rid of.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,328 posts, read 21,900,953 times
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keep the extra point as it provides just the right amount of time for my shredded cheese to melt onto the nachos in the microwave
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:48 AM
Status: "Get off my cloud !" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,103 posts, read 4,946,109 times
Reputation: 4176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
That the NFL is popular is not a reason to keep a play with no other purpose than to waste time. Can you think of a good reason to keep the extra point, then to compare it some completly unrelated change that nobody has proposed and say "well if you get rid of this you have to get rid of that too(even though that's not true)". And to say well change is not good. If you can't well than that's good evidence that the extra point can be gotton rid of.
I've already posted that the original intent of the extra point was not to be challenging but to provide a way of increasing the value of a touchdown as opposed to 2 field goals. It wasn't ever meant to be that challenging but something that had to be done, as opposed to given. Kickers have gotten much better and much deeper in the NFL over the years, but just because their success rate has gotten so high does not mean this is a play that amateurs can pull off without a particular set of skills. I also posted that the downtime for the EP is a good thing as well. It gives time for the fans to reflect on the play that resulted in the TD and what the game situation is for the remainder of the contest.

If you want to make the play more challenging then fine there are many more subtle changes that can be made short of eliminating the play all together. Narrow the goal post, have them kick from the hash marks, put an extra set of uprights between the existing uprights ect, ect.

You post that the success of the game is no reason to stand pat on the EP rule, I post that the success rate of the Kickers is no reason in and of itself to change the EP rule. Some people it seems just like to penalize success..
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Here or There
3,961 posts, read 2,513,223 times
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I think moving back to the 30 is too far. I can see the point of making the XP more challenging, but I think that is too far back.
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:09 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,060,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
I've already posted that the original intent of the extra point was not to be challenging but to provide a way of increasing the value of a touchdown as opposed to 2 field goals. It wasn't ever meant to be that challenging but something that had to be done, as opposed to given. Kickers have gotten much better and much deeper in the NFL over the years, but just because their success rate has gotten so high does not mean this is a play that amateurs can pull off without a particular set of skills. I also posted that the downtime for the EP is a good thing as well. It gives time for the fans to reflect on the play that resulted in the TD and what the game situation is for the remainder of the contest.

If you want to make the play more challenging then fine there are many more subtle changes that can be made short of eliminating the play all together. Narrow the goal post, have them kick from the hash marks, put an extra set of uprights between the existing uprights ect, ect.

You post that the success of the game is no reason to stand pat on the EP rule, I post that the success rate of the Kickers is no reason in and of itself to change the EP rule. Some people it seems just like to penalize success..
There is no evidence that this is the case since the invention of the extra point was when it was challenging and not made all of the time. And since the same thing could be accomplished by making the touchdown worth 7 points, this hypothesis is clearly false.
If the objective of the extra point is just to waste time so the fans can think about the previous play the nfl might as well put in a couple extra commercials and make some more money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
You post that the success of the game is no reason to stand pat on the EP rule, I post that the success rate of the Kickers is no reason in and of itself to change the EP rule. Some people it seems just like to penalize success..
People are not proposing to get rid of the extra point because kickers make alot of them, they are proposing to get rid of it, because it is a play that is routine with the same result every time and is a waste of time. But I guarantee that the NFL Is not successful because of the extra point. And I guarantee you that fans don't tune in to watch the extra point.

Last edited by jdm2008; 04-25-2014 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:15 PM
Status: "Get off my cloud !" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,103 posts, read 4,946,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
There is no evidence that this is the case since the invention of the extra point was when it was challenging and not made all of the time. And since the same thing could be accomplished by making the touchdown worth 7 points, this hypothesis is clearly false.
If the objective of the extra point is just to waste time so the fans can think about the previous play the nfl might as well put in a couple extra commercials and make some more money.


People are not proposing to get rid of the extra point because kickers make alot of them, they are proposing to get rid of it, because it is a play that is routine with the same result every time and is a waste of time. But I guarantee that the NFL Is not successful because of the extra point. And I guarantee you that fans don't tune in to watch the extra point.
There are all kinds of ways to make the EP more challenging without eliminating it altogether I posted a few of those but you choose to focus your argument on eliminating the EP, which is not being considered with this pre-season experiment. Eliminating the PAT was looked at way back in the 1968 preseason which generated little interest. Several would be leagues have also tried it obviously without any success. I think you underestimate fan appreciation for the EP, not that people think it is an exciting play just that it is a traditional part of the game . Every team in the league that scores a TD has a choice to take the easy 1 PAT or go for 2, and many people see that as a integral part of the game . Times and attitudes do change over time but the NFL is years away from eliminating the EP altogether.

As far as awarding 7 points for TD's then taking 1 away if the team goes for 2 ?.IMO any rule that takes points away is just to strange for NFL fans. What is a TD worth 7 or maybe only 6? Some 99 yard TD's will end up only being worth 6 points while some 1/2 yard plunge will be worth 7. It will also cause issues as far as records are concerned since points scored by individuals is a stat the NFL keeps. We will see...
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,176 posts, read 972,874 times
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extra points from the 30 yd line is 40 yds. Thats ridiculous. Kick them from the 20yd line which means it should go in probably 80% of the time, but definitely makes the 2pt conversion a real thought now.
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Old 05-02-2014, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Here or There
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Extra points from the 30 yard line is 47 yards--that's too far. You have to add in the center to holder distance.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:13 AM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 766,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
You have the perfect solution. Just make a TD 7 points, forget about the extra point and for that matter forget about the 2 point conversion. One less thing to try to explain to my wife about scoring.

This will speed up the game. In fact why not give the 7 points for the TD and then just turn around and place the ball on the 20 for the other team and eliminate the kickoff, since putting the KO through the end zone has now also become routine. This will also ensure nobody gets hurt either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
The extra point is a rote play, the two point conversion is not. The kickoff is not. The point of sports is entertainment and excitement not routine activities that have the same results and the same actions time after time.
The fact that you can think of no reason to keep the extra point except to provide absurd examples with nothing to do with the question posed proves that you can not think of any good reason to keep the extra point.

Actually I was being funny/sarcastic but you got absurd out of it. I played football and I know what the point of sports is. The extra point is a waste of time as it stands. The kickoff is quickly becoming the "next extra point". Where kickers used to go for hang time to allow the kickoff team time to get downfield they are now going for distance and line-driving the kick through the end zone. Entertainment and excitement? Where? You find touchbacks exciting?? No more celebrations, no more dunking the ball over the goal posts.
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
4,324 posts, read 2,260,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXCell View Post
I think moving back to the 30 is too far. I can see the point of making the XP more challenging, but I think that is too far back.
I agree, I know it's more challenging, but I think it's too far. They could move it up to the twenty yard line perhaps.
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