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Old 06-09-2014, 10:15 AM
 
218 posts, read 203,841 times
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Just like how the fans remember Favre
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:11 AM
 
561 posts, read 1,003,619 times
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While he's still a very good QB, he's old-school, which just isn't conducive winning championships in contemporary football. He's never been a good scrambler, and now that he's older he always looks like he's running in mud. To me, it also seems that his arm-strength has diminished significantly in the last two seasons.

The Broncos will probably still have a very good regular season record, maybe even a great record. But as we saw in the Super Bowl, their offense just isn't well suited against a quick, dynamic defense. Even if they'd played the 49ers, they probably would've been soundly defeated. It was clear from the NFC championship game that the 49ers and Seahawks were far and away the two best teams, and the Broncos were a very distant 3rd.

With no scrambling ability and diminished arm-strength, I think Manning's championship window is closed.
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
9,413 posts, read 5,209,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Dave, were do you put Bradshaw? #2 ?

As far as bad postseason games, Montana had a few.. none in the SB though..

It's ironic that the biggest Playoff moment (The Catch) for Montana came in a game in which he did not play particularly well. He threw 3 picks vs the Cowboys in that game.

I can't pick an ATB QB or GOAT. I have a top 5 which Montana is in, but its simply too hard to say this guy was better than this guy within that list. I have a hard time saying Montana is better than Peyton simply because Montana was 4-0 in SBs while Peyton is 1-2. If I used that formula, then I would have to say that Bradshaw was better than Peyton and I watched Bradshaw play and my eyeballs tell me that he simply was not better than Peyton Manning..
Bradshaw, like Mark Sanchez, is not in the discussion because we are not using the playoffs as the single measuring stick What we are trying to do is use the playoffs as a sort of tie breaker between the best of the best. Being called "The Best" is a huge bar and you can't have any warts.

It's why despite all his amazing accomplishments I can't call LeBron the best ever for the simple fact that he has shied away, or failed, in so many last second shots. That does not mean I don't think LeBron is one of the best ever, just that he is not at the top of my list and why Michael Jordan is. Same with Peyton. He has been unbelievable but that playoff pimple is large and it separates him from Montana etc.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Beacon Falls, CT
363 posts, read 290,410 times
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I'll remember Peyton as somebody who revolutionized the quarterback position. I'll also remember him as one of the classiest, most humble individuals to ever play the sport. He is truly gracious in victory and defeat and what some fail to realize is that there is more to a player than what you see on the stat sheets.
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
9,413 posts, read 5,209,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UconnHuskies630 View Post
I'll remember Peyton as somebody who revolutionized the quarterback position. I'll also remember him as one of the classiest, most humble individuals to ever play the sport. He is truly gracious in victory and defeat and what some fail to realize is that there is more to a player than what you see on the stat sheets.

Totally agree with every word. A lot of us were really rooting for him to win that last game just to cement his legacy on Mt. Rushmore. Sad it didn't happen.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,356 posts, read 11,088,066 times
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UConn sums it up very well, and exactly how I feel. Being "older", I get tired of all the stats, lists, top 5 this and that, the way "fans" look at players and the game today. Big picture, I always think of the whole career, not playoffs and not SB wins. Fans are critical of QBs because they "always" choke in the playoffs, excuse me, are there not 11 players involved?
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
9,413 posts, read 5,209,705 times
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Of course there are other players involved. But it should be obvious that other than maybe NHL goalie no position has more of a direct impact on the game's outcome than NFL QB. Again when talking about the best ever, and clearly Peyton is in that discussion. How is it unfair to look at playoff performances? Again the best come up big when it matters the most. It's why Reggie Jackson is a household name and Jim Rice is not.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,338 posts, read 3,954,112 times
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Dave,
I like your analogy but I have a hard time separating players from the same era like Elway and Montana using your formula. Both were able to lead their teams to the SB multiple occasions and the only glaring difference is there SB record. I think you could have swapped Elway and Montana's teams and Elway would be the QB with a 4-0 SB record and Montana would be 2-3.

So in this case where both players are equal I think using their playoff record as a tie breaker (so to speak) would be misleading. I watched both Montana and Elway play their entire careers and the eyeball test tells me that Elway was better... not glaringly better but better non the less. Montana has the better playoff record simply because he was on the better team. To be honest, I am not sure Montana could have led the Broncos to those 3 SB appearances in the 80s the way Elway did...

But, I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, nor the last!
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
9,413 posts, read 5,209,705 times
Reputation: 14197
In all honesty I have no idea why John Elway is not a concensus top 5 QB. As you said he passes both tests, carried marginal teams (as Marino and Peyton did), and won multiple rings.

No doubt Montana had a great cast and system. But let's not forget that his place in history, having won 2 SBs and played in another NFCC Game, was set before Jerry Rice even arrived in SF. Montana was winning championships throwing to the likes of Freddie Soloman and Earl Cooper. He later took KC to the AFCC Game after leaving SF.

My Mt Rushmore, in order, is

Montana
Unitas
Elway
Brady
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,338 posts, read 3,954,112 times
Reputation: 4172
Dave,
I have permanently erased the 1981 SB from my memory banks as a result of the 1981 NFC Championship game despite ESPNs constant reminder.

I have a top 5 that I can't put in any order other than chronologically;

Graham
Unitas
Montana
Elway
Manning
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