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Old 01-12-2015, 02:48 PM
 
6,469 posts, read 3,467,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
And anyone who has a total understanding of how the Pats were using a loophole in the rules to effectively cheat and can go along with it is either short on scruples or a Pats fan all the way. Look at the link in the OP and there is a good explanation, with pictures just for people like you, that explain how it was done.
Call it a loophole - based on the rules as written it was totally legal within the current rules, so in no way was it cheating. It's actually deemed being studious and detailed in the rules. The officials had every chance to throw a flag or do something, but guess what, they couldn't because it WAS legal.

I heard a great explanation yesterday on ESPN from a past head of official's, and he went through it all including jersey #'s and said the Pats did everything above board. They are just smarter than everyone else in this case.

So sorry, people like me who also study the game understand. And the Pats have been on the other side of calls like thees through the years, just as every other team has. It just so happens the Pats continue to win, and fans outside the area get tired that their team can't seem to crack the Brady/Belichick team.

 
Old 01-12-2015, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
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Too bad they had to resort to a loophole to win the game isn't it? If they hadn't gotten that one TD in that series, they would have lost to a better team. One that does not spend all their time looking for loopholes in the rules.

Maybe they can use some of Brady's unused salary to actually hire a lawyer fulltime to discover more loopholes in the rules.
 
Old 01-12-2015, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
Too bad they had to resort to a loophole to win the game isn't it? If they hadn't gotten that one TD in that series, they would have lost to a better team. One that does not spend all their time looking for loopholes in the rules.
Really? You believe that?

So the Pats sat behind a computer and pretended to execute on the field and come back twice from 14 points down and pick Flacco twice on this one loophole (legal) that bothers you so much. Being up 14 twice and not being able to prevent two comebacks with such a good defense - the loophole did that? The loophole picked Flacco? I understand your frustration as a Ravens fan. But in the 2 games the Ravens won at Gillette in the playoffs, I don't recall such angst and anger against the Ravens from Pats fans, but instead frustration with their own teams inability to win on their home field.

The Pats didn't resort to anything to win - they actually out coached and out played the Ravens when the gun sounded, plain and simple.

EDIT: They don't need a lawyer - they have Belichick the genius.
 
Old 01-12-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
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Well, if the Ravens resorted to using loopholes in their two previous wins, I guess you'd have a good case. The Pats in fact did resort to trickery, whether legal or not by using a loophole in the rules. Just remember, what goes around comes around. I am certain before Bellicheat's run as coach is over, he will be on the receiving end of similar loopholes.
 
Old 01-12-2015, 03:16 PM
 
6,469 posts, read 3,467,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
Well, if the Ravens resorted to using loopholes in their two previous wins, I guess you'd have a good case. The Pats in fact did resort to trickery, whether legal or not by using a loophole in the rules. Just remember, what goes around comes around. I am certain before Bellicheat's run as coach is over, he will be on the receiving end of similar loopholes.
Again, although I see your angle, don't forget the game of football is played on the field and on the chalkboard. Game planning is quite important to the game, and the execution is the culmination. Edelmen's trick play for a TD & lining up within the rules, two huge trick plays in the game. Sure, I'd be upset if we got schooled and lost.

The Pats have been schooled twice by the Giants in the Superbowl. I was upset, especially blowing the perfect season while losing to an average QB in Eli, twice. But on those days, the Pats were outplayed and out coached, so I begrudgingly tipped my hat to them without all the angst and anger fans such as yourself show, pointing the finger to the other team trying to blame them for your misfortunes.

I do not mean to sound rude, and I have actually enjoyed our banter - but as a fan you just appear to me to be a poor loser.
 
Old 01-12-2015, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
Again, although I see your angle, don't forget the game of football is played on the field and on the chalkboard. Game planning is quite important to the game, and the execution is the culmination. Edelmen's trick play for a TD & lining up within the rules, two huge trick plays in the game. Sure, I'd be upset if we got schooled and lost.

The Pats have been schooled twice by the Giants in the Superbowl. I was upset, especially blowing the perfect season while losing to an average QB in Eli, twice. But on those days, the Pats were outplayed and out coached, so I begrudgingly tipped my hat to them without all the angst and anger fans such as yourself show, pointing the finger to the other team trying to blame them for your misfortunes.

I do not mean to sound rude, and I have actually enjoyed our banter - but as a fan you just appear to me to be a poor loser.
I might agree with you, if the Ravens honestly lost the game. But they didn't.

Edelman's pass play was not due to trickery. It was just a play that is seldom executed, but has been done many times in the past. It is nowhere the same as what they did with the formation trickery. You watch. There will be new rules coming that if a team declares someone ineligible, the defense will be given time by the refs to either shift players around or substitute if they desire. If not and teams start using that tactic all the time there will be hell to pay, when teams have to start using timeouts to adjust. Don't forget, these tactics can be used against your team too.
 
Old 01-12-2015, 04:35 PM
 
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I hate the Pats and in general, think they're slimy cheaters, but in this instance, if the Pats were doing something illegal, its up to the refs to step in and stop the play so i have a little problem with the Ravens coach blaming the Pats for this. You can't cheat unless the refs let you.
 
Old 01-12-2015, 04:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
The rules state that if the offense makes a substitution, the defense is allowed time to make a substitution to match the players the offense has on the field. By making a receiver ineligible they have in effect changed a player from a receiver to a lineman.

I don't understand the rules enough to know why they have to declare the player ineligible, but my guess is that they have to or they would get a penalty for an illegal lineup.

By the Pats doing that and quickly snapping the ball they Ravens had no chance to substitute a player to match the new lineup. If it was a legal move on Belicheck's part, why didn't he use it after Harbaugh complained? The refs didn't have a clue. The NFL will have to rule on it for the future.

Word has it Belicheck may retire and become an ambulance chaser in his next career move.
as noted everything was done by the book. the ineligible and eligible players were announced, the formation was legal. as to a substitution violation, its possible that no substitution was made at the time, thus no defensive substitution was allowed.

as to why belichick didnt use it again, once a play becomes known, it ceases to be a big weapon, which is why trick plays work once in a while during the season, but once the other team knows its in your play book, and that you are willing to use it, they can then prepare for it. you can bet that other teams will now pick up on the formation and use it from time to time, and perhaps the patriots will be on the wrong end of the play.

this is what makes good coaches great, same thing as what makes good crew chiefs great, they study the rule book and find things they can use to their advantage. however once that advantage is known, it ceases to be an advantage.
 
Old 01-13-2015, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,769 posts, read 6,769,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
The rules state that if the offense makes a substitution, the defense is allowed time to make a substitution to match the players the offense has on the field. By making a receiver ineligible they have in effect changed a player from a receiver to a lineman.

I don't understand the rules enough to know why they have to declare the player ineligible, but my guess is that they have to or they would get a penalty for an illegal lineup.

By the Pats doing that and quickly snapping the ball they Ravens had no chance to substitute a player to match the new lineup. If it was a legal move on Belicheck's part, why didn't he use it after Harbaugh complained? The refs didn't have a clue. The NFL will have to rule on it for the future.

Word has it Belicheck may retire and become an ambulance chaser in his next career move.
LOL, that's funny. Well the NFL finally ruled on it and said it's total legal.

Why didn't BB use it again? It's one of the one-shooter guns, you can only fire it once and hope you hit your target (which they did). After that, now everyone is looking for it.

I think we're going to see a couple more trick moves in the championship games were teams try to catch their opponent not paying attention.
 
Old 01-13-2015, 01:45 PM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,226,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker2069 View Post
LOL, that's funny. Well the NFL finally ruled on it and said it's total legal.

Why didn't BB use it again? It's one of the one-shooter guns, you can only fire it once and hope you hit your target (which they did). After that, now everyone is looking for it.

I think we're going to see a couple more trick moves in the championship games were teams try to catch their opponent not paying attention.

They used the formation, or the "tactic" three times. Baltimore didn't pick up on it even the third time.

This wasn't even that much trickery. This type of thing is used in college and even high school not infrequently.
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